Flexible Magnetic Build Surface for the M2/M3

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willnewton
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Re: Flexible Magnetic Build Surface for the M2/M3

Post by willnewton » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:49 pm

As to flatness for printing, it seems fine to me. The M2 uses rubber bed mounts, the bed can be moved by pushing the corners up and down with a finger. This printer was designed with a certain amount if compliance. It helps keep the print nozzle from knocking prints loose or getting stuck and losing steps as it traverses the print area.

Here is the beginning of a larger print. I stopped it here to pull it up and see if everything was sticking well. It was.
7CF19FE0-700B-4671-A555-9E5D6C74F9B2.jpeg
I started the print again and let it run. This was a large plate, perfect for testing the bed as it was intended.
35D2A85D-0FC3-4623-8752-4940895D52A9.jpeg
I normally use blue tape over the stock glass bed and have had great success. Although a large print with a lot of build surface contact like this would have me struggling to remove it. I also leave the bed on the printer when removing prints, so all that effort would probably knock my bed out of level.

When this print was done and cooled, I simply lifted the flexible plate off the magnetic base, give it a light bend and off it came! I had printed the new small bed clips on the PEX and they released fine, but a large print like this really shows how effortless print removal should be.
Last edited by willnewton on Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm finally back to where I started two days ago!

A thread with some stuff in it I update every once in a while. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9
See some of my stuff http://www.thingiverse.com/willnewton/about

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willnewton
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Re: Flexible Magnetic Build Surface for the M2/M3

Post by willnewton » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:11 pm

So, there is another placeI deviated a bit from the instructions. I did rub the PEX with the included steel wool, but I wanted more filament grip. So I changed to a plastic scuffing pad.

I used a maroon 3M Scotchbrite pad like these. They are about a 600 grit. It performs about like 00 or maybe 000 steel wool.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002SQYF0/re ... UTF8&psc=1

They make and Ultra Fine as well. They are about an 800 grit. It performs very closely to 0000 steel wool.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MBPTH56/re ... UTF8&psc=1

I love these pads. No steel bits breaking off everywhere and they are embedded with silicon carbide grit, so you get very efficient and consistent cutting action.

Also, about the bed heating, Steel is great heat conductor vs. glass, which is an insulator. I think the Wham Bam bed is superior in speed and dispersal of heat to the stock bed.

As a beta test, this was a success. Other than switch to a plastic vs. steel wool that is the only change I made. The printed clips are not necessary, but they sure are nice to have.

The install was simple. The parts were well made. The instructional video was clear. The flexible bed performs just as it was supposed to. Good job Peter and Wham Bam!

I will update this thread over time so I can report on how it does over the long term, but I feel good about it and have no plans to reinstall the glass. This steel sheet does make me think about installing a leveling probe though, but that is for another thread!
Last edited by willnewton on Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm finally back to where I started two days ago!

A thread with some stuff in it I update every once in a while. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9
See some of my stuff http://www.thingiverse.com/willnewton/about

psd
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Re: Flexible Magnetic Build Surface for the M2/M3

Post by psd » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:14 pm

great reviews so far!
some helpful facts:

For PLA on the PEX surface you do need a lot of first layer squish
70° Bed
no part fan till 3 or 4 layer
Parts tend to release as soon as flexi plate is cool.

For PETG on PEX use average squish or even less (bigger gap) as the PETG likes to stick to it very well
70° Bed
no part fan till 3 or 4 layer
do not try to remove parts until part, not just flexi plate, are cool thoroughly, you can remove the flexi plate from machine and prop up to cool underside. Bend flexi plate to pop off, never pry or pull.

For ABS
average to low squish
110° -130° Bed (some people over heat bed to compensate for lack of enclosure)
no part fan till 3 or 4 layer
- peter,

innovative product designer and tinkerer

www.petersolomondesign.com

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willnewton
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Re: Flexible Magnetic Build Surface for the M2/M3

Post by willnewton » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:20 pm

Peter, I forgot to mention that I only tested PLA. I may run some PETG on it in the future. I will also try some Ninjaflex when I have a call for it. I do not print ABS at all.

I usually run my bed at 50°C for PLA. PLA can be run without a heated bed, so I figured I would drop down even more during testing so I could just pop off the print and stick the plate back on without waiting for it cool down.

The large plate was printed with a bed temp of 35°, so I know the temp can be dropped for sure. It kinda depends on the print.

Also, I know the PEX will take blue tape, so if I needed stronger holding power without excessive squish, then I could use that.

I have been a bit jealous of some of the other printers that have some form of flexible or removable bed on them and now the M2 does too!
I'm finally back to where I started two days ago!

A thread with some stuff in it I update every once in a while. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9
See some of my stuff http://www.thingiverse.com/willnewton/about

psd
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:09 pm

Re: Flexible Magnetic Build Surface for the M2/M3

Post by psd » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:24 pm

Hi Will, you are lucky you got it to stick, if you want more adhesion for PLA and PETG go to 70 bed
for TPU a 40 bed is sufficient!
- peter,

innovative product designer and tinkerer

www.petersolomondesign.com

sprior
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Re: Flexible Magnetic Build Surface for the M2/M3

Post by sprior » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:59 am

Having been accepted into the beta I installed the Wham Bam Systems flexible build plate this weekend and tried a few tests.

My 5 year old 24V V3b extruder M2 has been heavily modified from stock - I was a tester of the dual extruder upgrade, but eventually went back to a single V4 extruder so I could add a BlTouch sensor. I also tested the switch from the original 3 point leveling with springs to a fixed bed mount. I've been printing with PEI adhered to glass for a couple of years.

I used Will Newton's corner clips for the Wham Bam plate, but I also needed to print corner pads to go under the heated bed, I printed those out of TPU. The installation of everything went fairly smoothly, applying the magnetic base to the heated bed went perfectly with no bubbles, I managed to apply the PEX layer to the flexible plate just a hair off and ended up trimming it a little with a knife. Not a real problem, just a minor dent in my OCD.

Because of the modifications I had previously made to my M2 I didn't have to do any recalibration at all of the machine after doing this install. The BlTouch measures the Z height to the top of whatever build plate I'm using so it sensed the new bed height and just kept going, and the probing for bed leveling takes care of that as well - no fuss AT ALL.

Because I already had it in the printer my first print with the new bed with an extra corner pad out of TPU. The main issue with TPU on PEI is that is sticks too well, so I've used glue stick to lessen the adhesion. I tried the PEX heated to around 20C (basically room temp). The print went very well and while flexing the plate isn't going to help much with a flexible filament I was able to get it off cleanly and the surface finish was really nice.

I then swapped in some PLA+ and printed a 50mm test square 1mm tall and was very happy with the first layer adhesion and the final finish.

The picture is mid second layer of my next print of a breadboard for ESP8266 modules. I've never tried to print this design before, but there is a LOT of fine detail in the first layer the way I printed this top down. It is very easy for such fine details to not stick to the bed, but with white eSun PLA and a bed temp of 70C the first layer stuck completely. The designer of this model suggested to print it top up with supports, but I think I'll be able to do it upside down without supports because of that ability to get a perfect highly detailed first layer.
2019-07-28 22.42.13.jpg
I've tried other surfaces before PEI and some of them were OK for a while, but quickly stopped working. If the Wham Ban PEX surface holds up this is going to be really good. The suggestion I'd have for them is to make available a Garolite version of their top surface so I can use it with filaments that need that.

Update: I added a picture of the result. Once the bed cooled down I flexed it and the pieces popped off. I'm VERY impressed with the quality of the top holes and the fact that none of them came off while the first layer was printing. I've actually had problems with this filament in the past, but this came out perfect.
2019-07-28 23.36.54.jpg
2019-07-28 23.35.09.jpg

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willnewton
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Re: Flexible Magnetic Build Surface for the M2/M3

Post by willnewton » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:48 pm

Steve, I have been pleased as well at how the PEX handles small isolated islands of printing, especially like you see in the first layer before the perimeters and infill start to combine those islands into one layer.

I have been using the bed for two weeks now and am very happy so far. I have been making several large plate prints that take up 1/3 of the bed with no issue. I have not had to adjust my z-zero or readjust my bed since installation.

I did go back to using a 70 degree bed temp as suggested by Peter, just for piece of mind on these large, time consuming prints.

After many prints, I had one issue of the filament not sticking in one small area of the build plate. A look at the PEX made it easy to see that I had left an oily thumbprint when removing the previous print. I wiped the PEX down with alcohol, removing the thumbprint, and the next print was just fine.

As stated previously, I was a blue tape user, so my bed cleaning habits were a bit loose. :) I just needed to pay a few seconds more attention to my bed cleanliness and have had no issue since.
I'm finally back to where I started two days ago!

A thread with some stuff in it I update every once in a while. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9
See some of my stuff http://www.thingiverse.com/willnewton/about

psd
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Re: Flexible Magnetic Build Surface for the M2/M3

Post by psd » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:14 pm

Thank you Steve and Will, please do reach out via email to me, interested if this is ready to go for production, or if we need to adress the corner clamp or TPU raiser issues.
So happy you both love it, it will change your whole build process, and not to mention preserve life and accuracy of machine, not having to chisel off prints anymore!
thanks again!
- peter,

innovative product designer and tinkerer

www.petersolomondesign.com

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willnewton
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Re: Flexible Magnetic Build Surface for the M2/M3

Post by willnewton » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:13 pm

Peter, I don’t know that I would change anything, at least I need nothing changed for my intended use. Now that I have spent time using this plate system, there is no way I am going back to the old glass bed and blue tape!

It has been a major performance upgrade that took minimal effort compared to electronic upgrades that need wiring in or new firmware updates or mechanical mods that need the machine to be disassembled. Most every M2/M3 owner (hopefully) can manage to re-level their bed, loosen a screw to set the nozzle height, and apply a couple of large stickers.

I discovered while removing a large print yesterday that I did not even have to completely remove the flex plate. I just lifted the front tabs about an inch or so and the print popped right off. Sooooo nice.

So, do you want to know how serious I am about my recommendation on this product or if maybe I just gave it a nice review because of the discount? Well, here you go.

He doesn’t know yet, but I just Paypaled Peter the difference between my discounted beta tester rate and the full retail price.

So yes, I have paid full price for this system, stand behind every word I wrote, and still say it is worth every penny. :D
I'm finally back to where I started two days ago!

A thread with some stuff in it I update every once in a while. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9
See some of my stuff http://www.thingiverse.com/willnewton/about

psd
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:09 pm

Re: Flexible Magnetic Build Surface for the M2/M3

Post by psd » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:41 pm

Wow, Will, such nice words, and very very appreciated! You really didn't have to pay back the difference, you deserve the discount for the feedback!
I hope all other Makergear owners can learn about this opportunity, I will be putting this into production right now and we will be ready for retail sale in about 2 weeks!
thanks again!
Peter
- peter,

innovative product designer and tinkerer

www.petersolomondesign.com

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