Black ePC - disappointing first print

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zemlin
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Black ePC - disappointing first print

Post by zemlin » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:21 am

I've been running some parts from natural ePC. I recently received some small samples of Black ePC with other filaments.
I decided to go ahead and order 1KG spools of white and one of black.

I just finished printing some parts from white, and those went fine. Using a nozzle temp of 300C and the PEI bed at 110C like I've used with clear - enclosure temp is at 60C.

I ran a calibration part from one of the black samples planning to run a part from the spool of black.
All looked good until I removed the part from the PEI build platform - most of the first layer stayed on the platform separating from the part. Questioning the layer strength I bent/broke the part and found it to be relatively weak and quite brittle. Layer bonding only seems to be an issue on the first layer. Trying to separate mid-part with a chisel did not produce splits along the layer lines. <edit> - messing around with the test part some more, I am able to peel off perimeter beads, so it's not a first layer issue. Even at 300C, layer bonding on the black sucks.

I have first layer height at 150%, 50% speed - so maybe I need to back down on the first layer height. The lack of toughness, however, is still disappointing.

Nothing like the natural ePC. The white also seems to be making very strong parts, although not quite as good as the natural (no surprise).

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willnewton
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Re: Black ePC - disappointing first print

Post by willnewton » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:45 pm

Are you running the bed fan? Just wondering if the previous layer has cooled too much.

Meanwhile at eSun, "We'll let the customers test this for us." ;)

I remember asking William at Intservo about colored ePC a while back and he said development was slow going, maybe this is an example of why.
I'm finally back to where I started two days ago!

A thread with some stuff in it I update every once in a while. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9
See some of my stuff http://www.thingiverse.com/willnewton/about

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zemlin
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Re: Black ePC - disappointing first print

Post by zemlin » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:48 pm

No bed fan.
I am corresponding with William. The part I ran was from a sample. I don't want to bust open the 1KG spool if it's going to be the same compound. If it's still evolving, I might give it a go.

Gwhite
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Re: Black ePC - disappointing first print

Post by Gwhite » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:58 pm

Any news on this front? I want to print a new extruder for my M2E, and would prefer to use black ePC, but not if it's still less rugged than the natural stuff.

I checked the reviews on Amazon, and they are mixed. For soem reason thge 1 kg spool has better reviews than the 0.5 kg spool, but the sample size is pretty small. One recent review (March 11) said it was very brittle.

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zemlin
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Re: Black ePC - disappointing first print

Post by zemlin » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:18 pm

I actually haven't run the material again since this original post.
I have found, however, that eSun's black PETG gets very brittle when run at higher temps, but is good and tough at lower temps. eSun suggested I run the black ePC at a lower temp, so it might be a similar situation. I am backed up with print work right now, but I have been wanting to break out the black again to see what I can do with it.

Gwhite
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Re: Black ePC - disappointing first print

Post by Gwhite » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:42 pm

I looked into other polycarbonate options. Polymaker PC-Plus has gotten some good reviews, but they insist that you need to use a sheet of BuildTak combined with a raft to get the right mix of adhesion. It has a recommended print temperature of 250-270C, where the eSun material wants you to print at 240-260C, so they appear to be pretty comparable from a temperature standpoint. For printing a new filament drive, the slightly higher temperature range might be an advantage. I'm assuming MakerGear uses their own ABS to make the factory printer parts, and it prints at 245-250C, so either polycarb is slightly higher temperature.

Polymaker PC-Max seems to have the best reviews (along with the highest price), but also wants you to use BuildTak.

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zemlin
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Re: Black ePC - disappointing first print

Post by zemlin » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:57 pm

FWIW I take the temperature ranges as a starting point, but often find I get much better part strength outside their suggested window. These days I print a vase-mode calibration cube and flex the sidewall to see how the layers are bonding. If a part splits with little or no effort or will pull apart into a slinky then I know I need to try something different.

For the eSun Clear ePC I still use 300C for the nozzle temp to get good part integrity and 110 on PEI has worked well for a good number of parts, even pretty big parts.

The only other PC I've tried was Gizmodorks Black. I never got anything to work with that stuff.

Gwhite
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Re: Black ePC - disappointing first print

Post by Gwhite » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:47 pm

Yeah, the Gizmodorks stuff hasn't gotten very good reviews. What sort of build plate and/or treatment have you used with polycarbonate? I don't want to have redo my print bed & re-level & zero unless I have to. I've had good luck with hairspray on the glass side of my factory build plate, and with gluestick on the Kapton side with various materials (PETG & various PLAs).

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zemlin
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Re: Black ePC - disappointing first print

Post by zemlin » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:48 pm

I print on PEI at 110C. Haven't messed with hair spray or glue with ePC, and I know Kapton didn't work for me. I don't recall what else I tested before getting good parts.

Phil
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Re: Black ePC - disappointing first print

Post by Phil » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:52 pm

Gwhite wrote:Polymaker PC-Max seems to have the best reviews (along with the highest price), but also wants you to use BuildTak.
BuildTak is polycarbonate. I would think it would be very difficult to remove and might destroy the BuildTak when removing a PC print.

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