Some dual extruder advice

[jeremy.006]

Hi all,

Just wanted to get some quick advice. I have one of the very early M2s (from the pre-order days, the blue and silver kind), and it has been very good to me. I am interested in upgrading to dual extruders, but unfortunately changes in the design means that I will need to purchase a new wiring harness, which means I will need to purchase a new heated build platform, which means I will need to purchase a new power supply. I also found out that after the safety recall that I need a new rambo as well.

The trouble I have is that I am in Australia, where shipping is already very expensive and the Australian dollar/US dollar is so low at the moment that it is going to cost me more than half of what I originally paid for the printer. While I am trying to decide if I should spend all this money, I am also trying to work out if I should wait for the metal extruder or if the PTFE will suffice. I'm interested in playing with PLA (obviously), polycarbonate, nylon and perhaps some experiments with POM or PEEK.

Can anyone give me some advice on whether the PTFE or metal hotend is the right one for me?

Thanks.

[insta]

Oh man, good luck with this. I went through the same thing (although incrementally), and it's no small (or cheap) task. Do yourself a favor and do not try and save money on cheap 24v power supplies -- I did this and it waited until it was super inconvenient and then failed on me. The MakerGear-branded PSUs are much beefier than an eBay special.

Honestly, with how much you have to go through, it may be worth looking at the Micron dual-extruder upgrade instead -- http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALL-METAL-DUAL- ... 27e22f2ca9. It seems pretty legit, but I don't know much about it. Other members on the forum are interested as well, maybe you can guinea pig for us

If you go the MG route, which is a pretty solid route, you'll want both an all-metal and PTFE hotend. I use the all-metal for ABS, PC, Nylon, and the PTFE for PLA, PVA, PET, and all the specialty filaments like BronzeFill or Laywoo. The all-metal hotends are available (at least, I have one...) but I think MG is focusing primarily on the PTFE ones.

[Tim]

MakerGear insists that the V4 with the PTFE insert is good for polycarbonate, although if you get an all-metal hot-end to be more comfortable about hitting the temperature that polycarbonate needs, you may give up on it anyway after coping with all the warping.

By the way, I have an older M2 (apparently not as old as yours---my frame is silver but no parts of mine are blue except for what I printed myself in PETg), and I did the upgrade without replacing the RAMBo. It can be done. You *must* replace the yellow circuit breaker in the back with an automotive fuse, because the circuit breaker cannot take 24V across it. I couldn't find a proper board-mount fuse socket, but I found one with wire leads. It's a total kludge but it has been printing along merrily for me for months now. The firmware will need a little modification, because the newer RAMBo has finer-resolution stepper motor drivers, and the factor of two needs to be handled in one place in the code. But that's pretty easy to take care of (at least, considering that you have to go through the process of flashing a new firmware anyway).

It is possible to get 12V cartridge heaters from E3D (I have one), but to my knowledge, nobody has tried to get a V4 and stick a 12V cartridge heater in it on an old 12V/19V M2 and see if it works. It would be kind of painful at the moment for me to downgrade my system back to the 12V/19V split supply, so I'm not going to go try it to tell you if it works or not. Presumably MakerGear has their technical reasons for switching from the 12V/19V split power supply to the 24V power supply, but it's also quite possible that none of those reasons has anything to do with the extruder heater.

[insta]

MakerGear insists that the V4 with the PTFE insert is good for polycarbonate, although if you get an all-metal hot-end to be more comfortable about hitting the temperature that polycarbonate needs, you may give up on it anyway after coping with all the warping.

By the way, I have an older M2 (apparently not as old as yours---my frame is silver but no parts of mine are blue except for what I printed myself in PETg), and I did the upgrade without replacing the RAMBo. It can be done. You *must* replace the yellow circuit breaker in the back with an automotive fuse, because the circuit breaker cannot take 24V across it. I couldn't find a proper board-mount fuse socket, but I found one with wire leads. It's a total kludge but it has been printing along merrily for me for months now. The firmware will need a little modification, because the newer RAMBo has finer-resolution stepper motor drivers, and the factor of two needs to be handled in one place in the code. But that's pretty easy to take care of (at least, considering that you have to go through the process of flashing a new firmware anyway).

It is possible to get 12V cartridge heaters from E3D (I have one), but to my knowledge, nobody has tried to get a V4 and stick a 12V cartridge heater in it on an old 12V/19V M2 and see if it works. It would be kind of painful at the moment for me to downgrade my system back to the 12V/19V split supply, so I'm not going to go try it to tell you if it works or not. Presumably MakerGear has their technical reasons for switching from the 12V/19V split power supply to the 24V power supply, but it's also quite possible that none of those reasons has anything to do with the extruder heater.

The 24v change was primarily for the heated bed, as those little connectors are right on the limit of current at 12v with no wiggle-room for oxidation or loose connections. There were plenty of other reasons though ... the same motor drivers are just as happy at 24v as they are at 19v, so that wasn't a negative. The motors gain torque at 24v vs. 19v though. The fans are easier to wire on 24v, since 24v (and 12v) is a much more common voltage than 19v for fans, and you don't have to do PWM to keep the fan voltages in line. 24v power supplies are also a lot more common, easier to source, and it's easier to make a professional-looking package. At the volume MG buys heater cartridges they can get them made in any voltage & wattage they want, so that's a moot point all together, although going to 12v @ 1" cartridges opens up the floodgates of the cheap Chinese ones used in clone JHeads (which at this point might be being produced by the millions per year, but says nothing about quality to expect).

My initial suggestion of the Micron setup was part idle curiosity, and part empathy to your situation. I can't speak for MakerGear in any capacity, so I don't know if they'll have a more customized "early adopter 2013 to early adopter 2015" upgrade kit that swaps out the half the printer you need swapped in one package at a lower price or not. Send Karen an email, they will work with you on things. They are trying to drive adoption of the v4 hotends, which is good for everyone involved as they're a nicer hotend than the V3b -- lighter, more capable, and potentially cheaper (or at least the same price, for extra features and lower weight) -- PEEK is surprisingly expensive, and the V3s have a lot of machining on them. The V3 had a good run but it's time for something newer