Dual Ready?

The official subforum for discussion of the installation and use of the official M2 Dual Extruder upgrade.
User avatar
rpollack
Posts: 494
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:01 pm
Location: Beachwood, OH
Contact:

Dual Ready?

Post by rpollack » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:08 pm

We are getting a lot of inquiries asking if we'll ship an M2 with the dual installed as it is currently only a user-installed upgrade. Do you think we should start shipping an M2 with the dual extruder installed?

Thanks,
Rick

User avatar
willnewton
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:32 pm

Re: Dual Ready?

Post by willnewton » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:43 pm

I think you should offer them. Being able to get it pre-installed fits in with your current business model of "no kits" as well. If they don't work out for whatever reason, you can simply stop providing them for sale.

Having it ready-made eliminates barriers of mechanical and firmware tweaking that folks can be intimidated to attempt in fear of messing up their current printer.
I'm finally back to where I started two days ago!

A thread with some stuff in it I update every once in a while. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9
See some of my stuff http://www.thingiverse.com/willnewton/favorites

User avatar
Tim
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:19 pm
Location: Poolesville, Maryland
Contact:

Re: Dual Ready?

Post by Tim » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:04 pm

Seems like an overdue option. I'd say yes, go for it.

User avatar
Jules
Posts: 3144
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:36 am

Re: Dual Ready?

Post by Jules » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:14 pm

Not a bad idea to offer it. :D

But a few caveats:

I still think it's a good idea for complete newcomers to learn on a single first. The learning curve on a single is stiff enough, and they really need to be totally comfortable with that before moving on to a dual. There are just so many additional things they will have to learn to use a dual. (Oozing, shields, more complex S3d settings, bugs in the dual S3d software, two nozzles to clog instead of one, twice the filament drive tensions to set, etc..) If they limit themselves to learning to use just one nozzle first, it might be doable.

And unfortunately, the potential for user frustration is going to be much higher. (Meaning more frantic calls to tech support, because the thing doesn't spit out perfect two-tone prints with the push of a button, as soon as they have it unboxed.) From a newbie standpoint, you really have no idea what to expect when you get one of these things...some people are going to enjoy the challenge. Others are going to trash talk it far and wide, because they had completely unreasonable expectations of the amount of work & skill involved.

You do have enough people who are familiar with using a dual now to field many of the questions though, (and i tend to be overly cautious sometimes), so I'd ultimately say........it could be worth a shot. :D

User avatar
insta
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:59 am

Re: Dual Ready?

Post by insta » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:23 pm

rpollack wrote:We are getting a lot of inquiries asking if we'll ship an M2 with the dual installed as it is currently only a user-installed upgrade. Do you think we should start shipping an M2 with the dual extruder installed?

Thanks,
Rick
I've seen "in the wild" that you've lost a couple sales to the Taz because they offer a dual extruder from the factory. What the percentage is vs. your normal sales I don't know. Every instance I've seen has been a corporate customer. To be honest, there are still more permutations you guys need to test and have validated from the factory. Firmware permutations are currently quite a sticky thing and perhaps the biggest issue I see impacting upgrade releases to the masses. I'd really like to see MakerGear tracking maybe a month behind Marlin's main branch with permutations for all the factory-released upgrades. MakerGear should be on the hook for V3b vs V4 (PID settings), autolevelling vs. not, Viki1, Viki2, duals, and every combination therein. Yes, it's a big task. It will take Josh a solid day once a month to do the updates and test flashes. You guys should not have to account for third party upgrades, although it's a good show of faith to offer a firmware for a stock machine with an E3Dv6 hotend (really just thermistor change).

I personally wouldn't offer it to the wild (although do allow people to email Karen directly and get a quote back with preinstalled upgrades for a markup) until you can revamp your online store and the firmwares. There are several upgrades for the M2 that can be factory applied. The duals should be offered alongside other upgrades like the auto-levelling, Vikis, a "silencing pack", perhaps preconfigured Raspberry Pis with OctoPrint. Each option can be "not installed, included in the box, factory installed".

It would be an incredible display to offer an E3Dv6 in lieu of the V4 as a third party upgrade (not factory installed). I still believe the V4 is a better hotend, but the E3Dv6 has a lot of momentum.
Custom 3D printing for you or your business -- quote [at] pingring.org

User avatar
jimc
Posts: 2888
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:30 pm
Location: mullica, nj
Contact:

Re: Dual Ready?

Post by jimc » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:36 pm

the dual is ready no question about that and it should be offered. I agree with insta on all those points too. Firmware is a little disorganized. All that stuff should be avail from a website support page without going to a sperate wiki or github for stl files which are btw usually out of date. A little revamp on the offerings and webstore are needed too just to make everything really well rounded and easy for a new user or someone thinking of purchasing.

User avatar
Jules
Posts: 3144
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:36 am

Re: Dual Ready?

Post by Jules » Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:15 pm

Hey Rick.....do you need that Getting Started Guide for the single cleaned up (so that it looks less like a chatty forum post, and more like actual instructions) and updated for the Dual? Maybe in PDF format that can be printed out? (Happy to do it if you decide to go ahead with the release. I've still got all the originals.....(I think.) :D

User avatar
insta
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:59 am

Re: Dual Ready?

Post by insta » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:10 pm

Jules, you should probably do it anyway, assuming you're OK with MakerGear sticking their logo on it and publishing it on makergear.com (where these guides, files, and firmware should live). It'll save them plenty of time. Your writeups are top-notch -- I found your PETG tuning one referenced on Reddit the other day (not even for an M2!).

I'd be happy to contribute firmware matricies, of course ;) I don't have a Viki2 or auto-levelling, maybe somebody else has others that can pick up the slack. I do have dual v4s, single v4, v3b, e3d (for a bit longer), upper homing, lower homing, and all viki1s.
Custom 3D printing for you or your business -- quote [at] pingring.org

User avatar
Jules
Posts: 3144
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:36 am

Re: Dual Ready?

Post by Jules » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:04 pm

insta wrote:Jules, you should probably do it anyway, assuming you're OK with MakerGear sticking their logo on it and publishing it on makergear.com (where these guides, files, and firmware should live). It'll save them plenty of time. Your writeups are top-notch -- I found your PETG tuning one referenced on Reddit the other day (not even for an M2!).

I'd be happy to contribute firmware matricies, of course ;) I don't have a Viki2 or auto-levelling, maybe somebody else has others that can pick up the slack. I do have dual v4s, single v4, v3b, e3d (for a bit longer), upper homing, lower homing, and all viki1s.
Really? :lol: Imagine that!

And of course they can use it, re-write it, whatever they want.....I'll even stick their logo on it for them - I vectorized it for that dual fan guard I made.

User avatar
zemlin
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:32 pm
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

Re: Dual Ready?

Post by zemlin » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:44 pm

I was one of those recent inquiries. While this is my first printer (got it last Friday), I know enough about the process and my intentions to know that a dual extruder is in my future. If I could have bought a dual extruder machine for a bit less than the single plus the price of the dual upgrade I would have done it - just so I didn't need to add it later.

Post Reply