Dual Advice - Sample Prints

The official subforum for discussion of the installation and use of the official M2 Dual Extruder upgrade.
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KeithA
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Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:07 pm

Dual Advice - Sample Prints

Post by KeithA » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:30 pm

I purchased the dual upgrade months ago but have never installed it. The postings I have seen here and various places on the internet made me reluctant to try. I have gotten to a point with the single that my print usually come out good but am tempted to do the upgrade. So I have a few questions;

1. On prints of a single color does the dual print equally as well as a single extruder?
2. What is the biggest headache concerning using the dual?
3. Can someone point me to sample prints using the dual?
4. What is given up when switching to a dual?
5. What is the best resource or tutorial for learning about dual printing in Simplify3D?
6. How much longer does it take for a dual color print to print vs the same model with single color?
5. Any other advice?

Thanks

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Jules
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Re: Sample Prints

Post by Jules » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:38 pm

1. On prints of a single color does the dual print equally as well as a single extruder?
Yes.
2. What is the biggest headache concerning using the dual?
Oozing issues when you use both nozzles at the same time. It's worse with some filaments like PETG. (PLA is not too bad.)
3. Can someone point me to sample prints using the dual?
There are several in the earlier threads on the Dual forum:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2221
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1951&start=10 (Tim's writeup on PVA and wood filament was done with a dual)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2848&p=17998&hilit=dual#p17998
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3472&p=23864&hilit=dual#p23864
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2875
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2877
4. What is given up when switching to a dual?
A considerable amount of time.....new learning curve. :D
5. What is the best resource or tutorial for learning about dual printing in Simplify3D?
There aren't any terribly detailed ones. There are a couple of bare bones videos on the Simplify3D site in the tutorials section. Your best bet is to read through the recent posts in the M2 Dual Forum, because I've been trying to document the process as I learned to use it. (Starting with those last two examples in number 3. above.)

One thing you do need to do is follow the tutorial below for setting your relative gap size, once you have the dual installed. It's not something that Rev.E users need to do, but you have the old style dual.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2917

Also highly recommend reading the Beginner's Guide for that machine - there is a brief discussion on using the dual, with links to the correct pre-set profiles. For the older M2's, this is the correct link:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3342
6. How much longer does it take for a dual color print to print vs the same model with single color?
A hell of a lot longer (Four times? Five times?)
5. Any other advice?
Yep....go for it. :D

There are advantages that offset the negatives. Dual color printing is frankly a pain in the pattootie. But from a convenience standpoint of being able to use different support materials simultaneously, or being able to have different kinds of filaments immediately available without having to clean the nozzle out first, it's well worth it. It's like having two machines set up in the space of one. And printing with dissolving support material really expands what you can create with the printer. Sometimes, it's the only way to create those exotic prints you find on Thingie.

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Tim
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Re: Dual Advice - Sample Prints

Post by Tim » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:30 pm

KeithA wrote:1. On prints of a single color does the dual print equally as well as a single extruder?
The only thing I would add to what Jules said is that if you want to print with a single extruder, it helps to pull any filament out of the other extruder, then lift the nozzle up by a couple of millimeters. Otherwise, there is a chance (that is much greater with filaments that have a tendency to warp) that the unused extruder will collide with the print and rip the whole thing off of the base.

I agree that you should go for it. The vast majority of problems with dual extrusion printing are software related, and the general hope is that the software will improve over time. Meanwhile, once you have the hardware installed, in the worst case your 2nd extruder goes unused most of the time. Yet it's there if you need it.

There's also the consideration that you can use a dual extruder as two single extruders to avoid the trouble of changing filaments so much. Then there are no software issues other than making sure you have different profiles for single-right and single-left printing, and making sure that you use the right one.

The main drawback is that Murphy's Law applies with a vengeance. If anything can go wrong, it will, and if you have a machine of twice the complexity, the two parts of which you are trying to use together, then there are approximately four times as many things that can (and will) go wrong.

KeithA
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Re: Dual Advice - Sample Prints

Post by KeithA » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:09 pm

Thanks for the replies! It seems as though it is time to try it out. I will read the installation guide and get my head wrapped around it. How long did it take to swap out the parts and get the firmware updated?

Thanks

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Jules
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Re: Dual Advice - Sample Prints

Post by Jules » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:25 pm

Takes a little longer if you are converting from a V3b. Took me a Saturday, but i was stopping to take photos of every step, and i'm the least mechanically inclined person on the planet. Just check off each step as you walk through it and you won't run into anything you can't handle.

KeithA
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Re: Dual Advice - Sample Prints

Post by KeithA » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:24 am

Did you find the directions accurate?

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Jules
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Re: Dual Advice - Sample Prints

Post by Jules » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:42 am

KeithA wrote:Did you find the directions accurate?
Depending on when you got it, I might have written them. So yeah, they should be pretty accurate. :lol:

Send me your email in a private message, i can send you the ones that i wrote up. (They're beginner friendly.)

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