New High-Temp Filament - Build Adhesion Issues!!

[mlhmail]

Hi. We have a new filament that prints great, but doesn't want to adhere to the build surface.

Here's the basics without giving away too much detail on the new filament

Filament Print temp: 300-320c (we modified an M2 with an E3D v6 - works great up to 400c)

Heated Bed temp: 100-120c (range is fine with our current 12v M2)

We have already tried: Kapton, Clean Glass, Glass with Acetone/ABS slurry, Kapton with ABS/Acetone Slurry, High-temp Gerolite (G-11) as-is and sanded. All with no luck. The plastic's shrinkage isn't excessive and causing curling - it just doesn't stick to what we've used so far.

We have ordered Ultem, Buildtak, and Perf Board - will try these when they arrive. Thinking about other grades of Garolite, but not sure if they are different than the G-11 we already tried.

What other methods should we try to get a difficult to stick material - to stick!!

Thanks in advance!!!!

3DXTech.com

[insta]

Find a solvent that dissolves the plastic, dissolve some, paint the goo onto the bed and print with the bed at Tg for the plastic.

[mlhmail]

Thanks! Thought about that, but this plastic doesn't dissolve very well in anything that doesn't grow extra legs / fingers… One of the reasons we're pretty excited about it, but we need to get it to stick first!

[insta]

Sounds like a PEEK or PTFE blend...

With Nylon and HDPE (two other plastics that don't like to stick) a suggested method is printing them straight on cast blocks of the material. It's obviously sketchy to do this, get the nozzle positioning wrong and you've permanently bonded the parts together. I didn't have much luck with this when I tried it with Nylon once, but I was also printing on thin sheets (1mm?) of 6/6 Polyamide.

We've as a community since discovered Garolite which works well enough for Nylon, but not much works for HDPE, and as such it's heavily fallen out of favor.

I wish we had more details ...

[mlhmail]

Not PEEK or PTFE - but I like the guessing! There's no PTFE, silicone, or other process aids that would inhibit sticking. It just doesn't like to stick to what we've tried so far.

We contacted our polyimide tape supplier and they made some high temp tape using the same base resin as in this filament - waiting to get that in the mail. The plan is to see if it likes to stick to itself - which makes a lot of sense since we get very good layer adhesion on the parts we do print. We've also contacted a supplier of sheet and we're trying to bring some in to see if - as with the tape - it will stick to itself. Agree with the issue of releasing from a slab of itself. At some point we'd like to actually get it to stick, but also it needs to release without breaking… Cross that bridge when we get there.

One guy mentioned blue tape at room temp. Honestly didn't think about that, but we'll give it a whirl. Also have some Plibond adhesive drying onto some glass to see if that works. Stuff stinks to high heaven, so we won't try it at any elevated temps - only a room temp.

We have access to the local maker space which has a laser engraver. We are going to make a zillion little holes /divots in some substrates (garolite, perf board, etc.) to see if that aids in some 'mechanical' interlock / adhesion.

Keep the ideas coming - this stuff is a serious advancement in desktop 3d printing materials - if we can get it to stick!!!

[insta]

Check your PM's...

[insta]

In addition to the guess I submitted via PM, try these methods for bed adhesion:

Generous application of hairspray (aerosolized, high-hold, dollar store) onto extremely clean glass. Multiple layers, bed temp at 90C.

(if it is what I think it is) Dissolve nitrocellulose in tolulene, paint the goo on the bed, let the tolulene flash off while heating the bed to 95C. Muse about how fleeting life is while doing all this.

edit: tolulene may be unnecessary, it might dissolve in a blend of methanol & ether.

[Tim]

If you're going to go the route of laser-drilling millions of little holes, I suggest attaching a vacuum pump to the underside. That's how a chip package is held down on a wire-bonding machine, and I've always thought that would work well on a 3D printer. Problem is, the build surface on wire bonding machines is usually only a few inches in diameter, so it's a lot easier to hook a vacuum pump to, and to maintain a constant pressure across the surface.

[jsc]

I recently came across a recommendation to use a thin layer of cyanoacrylate over Kapton for ABS. I haven't had to resort to it, but it's a thought. It will have cured by the time your print, which I presume is the idea.

[mlhmail]

Isn't nitrocellulose explosive?!

Will try some of the lower tech / less dangerous (and less likely to have the ATF call me) routes.

Thx!