Question about supports.

Post your advice, tips, suggestions, etc...
Post Reply
Phat13uddha
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:00 am

Question about supports.

Post by Phat13uddha » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:14 pm

Ok so I've had my Printer for about a week now I guess and I like it a lot and I think I've got a feel for simple things without overhangs.
But I've been attempting to print my first tricky print http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:53944 and I have been having problems with the supports on this print. While the first layer will usually stick to the bed when it's building up the supports they don't stick to themselves very well. And I'm about a dozen prints in and haven't made it past layer 5 without getting a support knocked lose or not printing right. Is there a trick to printing models with supports or do I just need to tweak my settings some more?

Currently running at Bed temp 70, Extruder temp 215 and on my last try I slowed the print speed by 10% and it seemed to help a little but not sure if that's just me hoping it helped.

jsc
Posts: 1864
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:00 am

Re: Question about supports.

Post by jsc » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:28 pm

What slicer are you using? That has a great deal of impact on how well the supports work. Simplify3D's generated support is pretty robust.

If they are getting knocked loose, there are a number of reasons. Primarily, you're not getting good enough bed adhesion and incidental contact and sideways forces will cause it to detach. A few things that will help:
  1. Calibrate your extruder (and z-height). This goes a long way to fixing a number of potential problems. Overextrusion will make incidental contact more likely, and getting the Z height perfectly correct will help you make sure your first layer will stay put.
  2. Use some bed treatment. There are many different things people like. Garnier Fructis Extreme Control or purple Elmer's Glue Stick both work well.
  3. Add in some z-lift on retraction, .1-.2mm should be enough. That will raise the extruder slightly for travel moves, and also help avoid incidental contact.
  4. Try reorienting the model/support angles such that you minimize the times the extruder will pass over them perpendicular to the support wall direction. In the case of your print, try to get the support walls going lengthwise along the arm, instead of across.
  5. You should also be able to slow down the speed just for supports.

benavery
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:31 pm

Re: Question about supports.

Post by benavery » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:50 pm

The steps jsc mentions is the best way to start. You should be able to get supports printing okay with out more elaborate measures. Fixing all those issues will make the overall print experience better anyways.

However, if for some reason you still have problems:
You can also use a raft, assuming the slicer rafts under the supports too - which I think most do.
Normally I hate rafts, as they give terrible surface quality on the base of the print - but for the print you link, there is very little that would be touching the bed (the rim of the round bit), so it would be fine.

The other trick is to quickly 3d model up a quarter size flat disc, about 2 layers (so 0.4mm for 0.2mm layers) thick. Then position that to be printed flat on the bed under where you want supports. This only works with slicers that make it easy to posisiton/add additional models (like s3d), otherwise you'd have to edit the original STL. The supports will be printed over a couple layers of plastic, and will probably adhere better.
This trick is also great for trying to keep corners of ABS models stuck down - you add these little mickey-mouse ears on the corners (partly integrated into the model - you'll have to cut them off) that tend to help keep the corners stuck and stop from peeling+warping up.

User avatar
Rara
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:48 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Question about supports.

Post by Rara » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:53 pm

I'll 2nd the raft suggestion. That should tell you if your problem is bed adhesion or something else.

Edit: if you tighten up the spacing and infill on the raft, I've gotten some really good results as far as how the bottom of the print looks. It may take some playing around with settings though as it can make it harder to remove the part.
2012 M2 V4-PTFE

Kaspa3
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 12:36 pm

Re: Question about supports.

Post by Kaspa3 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:26 pm

Great info here!! I also have problems with supports using slic3r.. if you turn on "supports" can you edit where you would like to use the support feature?? I find when the support feature is on, it adds material everywhere! I had raised Text at .01" and it added support all over the letters. I have found forums where many folks create their own supports and import them in... I intend to try this but it would be a nice feature if one could edit the supports provided by the slic3r program... I like the ability to step through a slice and see where material will be placed. I have also heard a lot about simplify 3d and how well it handles support features...can you edit the supports in that SW??
These forums are great for info!! Thank you!!

User avatar
Jules
Posts: 3144
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:36 am

Re: Question about supports.

Post by Jules » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:51 pm

Kaspa3 wrote:Great info here!! I also have problems with supports using slic3r.. if you turn on "supports" can you edit where you would like to use the support feature?? I find when the support feature is on, it adds material everywhere! I had raised Text at .01" and it added support all over the letters. I have found forums where many folks create their own supports and import them in... I intend to try this but it would be a nice feature if one could edit the supports provided by the slic3r program... I like the ability to step through a slice and see where material will be placed. I have also heard a lot about simplify 3d and how well it handles support features...can you edit the supports in that SW??
These forums are great for info!! Thank you!!
Yes, S3D has the ability to manually place supports just where you want them, or to delete the manual supports. Very easy, it's a point and click sort of thing. Or you can have it automatically generate support, which does tend to add support everywhere.

Kaspa3
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 12:36 pm

Re: Question about supports.

Post by Kaspa3 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:02 pm

Thanks Jules! Trying to decide to buy the S3D SW...SO i am assuming SLIC3r does not allow one to edit the supports?? Will it have that capability in the future ?
Thanks!

User avatar
Jules
Posts: 3144
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:36 am

Re: Question about supports.

Post by Jules » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:13 pm

I've been very happy with Simplify 3D, so I can recommend it. It's very quick to learn (like half an hour quick) and there are a lot of tried and true profiles for various materials already set up in it, or available on the forum. I ordered it with my M2 because I knew there would be a lot of learning when the machine arrived - I tried to simplify the process wherever possible. It was well worth the $, especially for newbies. :D

Haven't tried Slic3r, but there are a couple of guys here who do use it and like it.

Post Reply