Fine Detail Printing

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wisdomknight
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Re: Fine Detail Printing

Post by wisdomknight » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:54 pm

spizzak wrote:Hi All, I'm trying to print some small enclosures with very fine details (250~300um) using my MakerGear M2, and am looking for suggestions for hardware setup and slicer parameters.

I'm currently printing with a 0.35mm extruder, but am looking at purchasing a smaller (0.25mm) one soon, as well as upgrading to the E3D v6 or MG v4 hot end. I've also added a fan duct for the main 50mm fan and added a second 50mm at 90 degrees to help with cooling

Can anyone recommend any further hardware modifications to help with these small prints?
What should I be looking at in terms of print speed, layer height, extrusion width, print temp, etc to resolve these fine details?
Are there any filaments that are better for printing small features than the standard PLA I'm using?

I thought the M2 would print at 25um out of the box.
Im really confused. What do I need to get more for this kind of resolution?

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ednisley
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Re: Fine Detail Printing

Post by ednisley » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:00 pm

wisdomknight wrote:I thought the M2 would print at 25um out of the box.
And, indeed, it can. You probably don't want to do that, because it won't produce noticeably better print quality.

"Resolution" is one of the things that the tech press has absolutely wrong about fused filament 3D printing: that's the absurdly small stepper motor resolution along the Z axis. What they don't mention is that the resolution in the XY plane is limited by the nozzle diameter and can't get better than about 0.3 mm.

As a result, all 3D printer manufacturers bullet-list their Z-axis resolution, because it's the only number anybody knows about when they start evaluating printers. Good manufacturers, like Makergear, also list the nozzle diameter, but nobody knows what that means: the press doesn't mention it.

So, yes, you can print 25 micron = 0.025 mm layers by specifying that in the slicer, then go crazy with first-layer adhesion problems, nozzle clogging, and excessive fussiness. Fine layers also increase the total print time: a one-hour print with 0.25 mm layers will require ten hours with 0.025 mm layers.

Within each of those 25 µm layers, the printer still can't produce XY features smaller than about 0.8 mm on a side: a pair of 0.4 mm plastic threads laid down side-by-side. Depending on the model and the slicers, you may be able to produce 0.40 mm single-thread features, but then you face problems with adhesion to the previous layer and the effect of retraction on tiny features.

Here's a small repair part I made some years ago in ABS through a 0.50 mm nozzle, 0.33 mm layers, and 0.66 mm thread width on a much-improved Makerbot Thing-O-Matic:
https://softsolder.com/2011/05/27/thing ... erfection/

Image

It's 20 mm long, 6 mm wide, and 10 mm tall. At the time, it was the smallest repair part I'd ever made.

The side view shows the layers:

Image

My M2, pushing PETG through a 0.35 mm nozzle, produces 0.40 mm threads in 0.20 mm layers, which is what I've told Slic3r to do. Other folks around here have produced sub-0.10 mm layers, with about the same XY resolution.

These support spiders held up a 6-32 nut recess:
https://softsolder.com/2016/02/10/vacuu ... e-sockets/

Image

The big star in the middle measures a bit under 9 mm OD and the smaller stars are 7 mm, with teeth 1 mm across. You can just barely make out the two threads forming each tooth, with rounded ends because the nozzle can't produce square corners!

In round numbers, that's as good as it gets: the plastic can't get any smaller!

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insta
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Re: Fine Detail Printing

Post by insta » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:27 pm

ed, you clearly haven't been paying attention to how Kickstarter printers are marketed anymore.

My 0.40mm nozzle printer has a resolution of 25 microns.
Custom 3D printing for you or your business -- quote [at] pingring.org

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ednisley
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Re: Fine Detail Printing

Post by ednisley » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:51 am

insta wrote:ed, you clearly haven't been paying attention to how Kickstarter printers are marketed anymore.
My 0.40mm nozzle printer has a resolution of 25 microns.
I grovel, I abase myself, I kiss your feet, I beg forgiveness on my ignorance ...

On that scale, a 0.25 mm nozzle should be good for mmmm 1 µm. Right?

Also: Cloud! FTW!

[wanders off, muttering vile imprecations]

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insta
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Re: Fine Detail Printing

Post by insta » Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:10 pm

Oh, at least.

Now, that said, I do have a machine that'll do an honest 200 micron XY and 50 micron Z. It uses a clone Mk8 0.2mm nozzle, prints slow (40mm/sec), can only print eSUN's natural HIPS, etc. The parts are very weak, but my god they're pretty.
Custom 3D printing for you or your business -- quote [at] pingring.org

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