Hydrogen Generator

[pyronaught]

Sounds like It was probably the poor mans hydrogen that's made with liquid Drano. I use to play with that stuff as a kid and had similar explosive results.

-Steve

I looked at the Aluminum + Sodium Hydroxide (drano) method of making hydrogen, but it takes 5 lbs of aluminum per 100cf of gas and you have a lot of heat being generated that you have to deal with. Using scrap aluminum and bulk Lye at $2/lb it would be something like $11 per 100cf of gas. The gas is produced much faster, but you have caustic waste water to dispose of afterwards and you have to round up a bunch of scrap aluminum. The heat generated is pretty significant too, so you need a big cooling system and steam is a concern. It's just a bigger hassle than electrolysis and not as clean or cheap. Startup cost is much lower though and it is a lot easier to build a system for doing that.

[pyronaught]

I know, but....remember the Hindenberg and all that..........

Hindenburg was 7 million cubic feet of gas, and a big volume of it was pre-mixed with oxygen at the tail due to a ripped gas cell. Even on that massive scale a lot of people still walked away from that disaster. An equivalent volume of propane or acetylene would have done a lot more damage.

But thanks to that damn video footage, Hindenburg spawn hydrogen phobia is a big mind virus that plagues hydrogen acceptance. If there was a video of a big propane production plant exploding, would anyone be more reluctant to turn on their grill?

[Tim]

But thanks to that damn video footage, Hindenburg spawn hydrogen phobia is a big mind virus that plagues hydrogen acceptance.

Remember that you promised not to get into your hydrogen phobia rant. . .

[Jules]

But thanks to that damn video footage, Hindenburg spawn hydrogen phobia is a big mind virus that plagues hydrogen acceptance. If there was a video of a big propane production plant exploding, would anyone be more reluctant to turn on their grill?

Probably! (Chuckle!)
Don't take it personally, i won't swim in oceans either since "Jaws".

[pyronaught]

But thanks to that damn video footage, Hindenburg spawn hydrogen phobia is a big mind virus that plagues hydrogen acceptance.

Remember that you promised not to get into your hydrogen phobia rant. . .

Deep breaths.... deep breaths....

OK, I'm better now.

[wmgeorge]

BTW you Can run a gasoline engine off Browns gas, but the economics are not there. Yes your running a car on water... sort of.

If it takes X number of watts to create X liters of H then it makes no difference if your on 12 volts or 220 volts.... its the watts that count.

[Josh]

I'll throw my hat in for printing a few copies, when you get to the big version.

[pyronaught]

BTW you Can run a gasoline engine off Browns gas, but the economics are not there. Yes your running a car on water... sort of.

Well, the energy to convert the water to hydrogen has to come from somewhere, and that is coming from burning gas if you're getting electricity from the alternator. At best, people injecting browns gas into their engine are increasing the efficiency of the engine by burning more of the fuel. They are not, as many claim, running the car on water. It is technically possible to run the car on just Browns Gas if you had a source of it, but since it can not be compressed without exploding, there is no way to store it. Thus it has to be made on demand, which means some other energy source is required to make it.

If it takes X number of watts to create X liters of H then it makes no difference if your on 12 volts or 220 volts.... its the watts that count.

True, but for a given number of watts current increases as voltage decreases and high current is the limiting factor on your wiring. Even running 30 amps through a typical 12 gauge wire is going to heat it up. Higher voltage lets you get more gas production from the same amount of current in these hydrogen generators. The 12v cell shown here is pulling around 12 to 15 amps (current increases as it heats up). Ten of these operating in parallel would draw a prohibitive 150 amps, whereas I can build a 120v unit that uses 10 times as many internal plates and get 10 times the gas production for the same 12 to 15 amp current draw. Lower voltages like 12v also require power supplies to drop the voltage down and regulate it, and power supplies get a lot more expensive as the current rating goes up due to all the internal components having to be rated for high current. Because voltage regulation and other fancy power management features are not needed for something like this, you can just run 120VAC through a full bridge rectifier and run the humpback DC that comes out of that right to the cell, eliminating the costly power supply from the picture.

[wmgeorge]

That is true of any process that uses electrical power, for a given wattage needed the higher the supply voltage the less amps flowing in the wiring. I think the reason 12 volts was used in the hydrogen separation it was not dangerous to life nor limb and a lot of people were using solar or wind for the 12 volt source.
I will just set back and read and learn from the experts!!

[pyronaught]

That is true of any process that uses electrical power, for a given wattage needed the higher the supply voltage the less amps flowing in the wiring. I think the reason 12 volts was used in the hydrogen separation it was not dangerous to life nor limb and a lot of people were using solar or wind for the 12 volt source.
I will just set back and read and learn from the experts!!

The vast majority of HHO generators being built by people are 12volt because they are intended to be used in their cars where the only DC supply voltage is 12v. Some experimental hobbyist units are also 12v because a car battery is an easy way to get high current capacity without spending a bunch of money on a high current power supply. The battery is of course only good for short term hydrogen generation before it has to be recharged. With gas being a lot cheaper now than it was a few years ago, the whole trend of putting HHO generators in cars for fuel economy has died off. All the HHO fuel forums are dead now and several of the companies selling HHO kits have gone out of business. When gas prices shoot back up again, the HHO fuel craze will no doubt return.