Still Struggling in the Deep ABS-with-Support Sea..

[swbluto]

The ringing is caused by inadequately secured motor heft with the use of a plastic motor mount (And probably also the mount's intrinsic design.), causing a spring-like effect that results in oscillations. An all metal motor mount would probably mitigate this issue, though I think a more direct securing of the motor's body (As opposed to its neck) would be beneficial as the body is where the mass, and thus the momentum, is.

This problem has been plaguing me in the form of the M2's inability to print thin column like features, which my replicators have no problems with (They, having wall street's money to hire college degreed engineers, had the collective foresight to resolve this problem at the start.). It'd be nice to think my M2 could do everything that my replicator could if it's "the best" printer out there.

Damn dude - still with this? If you don't like the machine fine, but this passive aggressive BS just makes you seem like a petulant child. The M2 is perfectly capable of printing columns , your exact issue is the printing of fine detail in a larger surface and may be a deficiency in the design though honestly I have printed very fine details such as the ones you showed (see the blade of the vorpal sword I posted).

Now on to your point about an all metal motor mount , I believe one is coming shortly as indicated in a thread post from Rick.

The metal motor mount will be available soon.

Rick

I have a right to be pissed about a $2000 machine that can't do the same things my other $2000 machine can. In essence, I can't use it for my business, which means that it was a wasted business investment of $2000. So, yeah, I'm kind of pissed. You don't know how often I'm in the situation where I'm like, "it'd be nice to have another printer to get these orders out by the deadline but... oh that's right... it can't do it. Oh well, a day late and a dollar short"(Btw, TRUER THAN WORDS. You're a day late in my business, you not only risk dissatisfying the customer thus future orders, but customers reorder less frequently. Less frequent reordering = less money per month = less revenue.)

Wait, I can probably just sell the M2 and get two replacement machines. That's starting to seem like a good idea...

(But, I would miss the 8x10" build area. That's about the only thing it has going for it.)

I'll probably just get the metal motor mount when it becomes available, assuming that solves these "ringing" problems at speed. (Still don't know if the extruder's retraction leakiness is a significant cause of the inability to do thin column like features, however. I probably should test that out...)

[Jules]

I have a right to be pissed about a $2000 machine that can't do the same things my other $2000 machine can. In essence, I can't use it for my business, which means that it was a wasted business investment of $2000. So, yeah, I'm kind of pissed. You don't know how often I'm in the situation where I'm like, "it'd be nice to have another printer to get these orders out by the deadline but... oh that's right... it can't do it. Oh well, a day late and a dollar short"(Btw, TRUER THAN WORDS. You're a day late in my business, you not only risk dissatisfying the customer thus future orders, but customers reorder less frequently. Less frequent reordering = less money per month = less revenue.)

Wait, I can probably just sell the M2 and get two replacement machines. That's starting to seem like a good idea...

Man, if it's just not working for you - sell it. You'll probably get close to what you paid for it. Then you can buy one that you like.

Life's too short to waste it being furious over something that isn't going to be changed by being furious, KWIM? (High blood pressure is no joke.)

(If you decide that you do want to keep it though, you might try Slic3r and those meshes to slow down the extrusion on your small text areas - it's got some amazing capabilites, and could handle that easily.)

[jsc]

Can you provide an STL of some model that you are having difficulty printing? Perhaps some of us could give it a try and see if we can do it.

[Bratag]

Can you provide an STL of some model that you are having difficulty printing? Perhaps some of us could give it a try and see if we can do it.

We went down this road with him in one of his other whining threads. He didn't there. He keeps bitching that it cant handle fine lettering (I believe that was his example) and when I showed him the vorpal blade which has large flat surfaces interspaced with filigree, but apparently that is not the same.

Added to that is he keeps going on about ringing and I basically get zero ringing now after tuning.

Obviously he has some experience with 3d printers but he seems totally reluctant to listen to anyone and obviously hasn't done much reading as several threads mention all metal motor mounts and a bunch of other tweaks to reduce vibration etc.

My advice to him is sell the machine and sod off the forums instead of hijacking every damn post with his incessant whining.

I refer to swbluto here. Not the original poster.

[huangleike]

Actually, if you upgrade to the dual, and print with 100% support using a dissolvable (or different) material in the other extruder, you can get it pretty darned close to perfect. I was impressed at how much better the lower surfaces were with solid support.

I was underwhelmed with the PVA as support material, but PLA works like a dream to prop up PETG. I'm sure there's something that does the same for ABS. (Matter of fact, I would probably design the support into the file - just a solid prop for the part to rest on. Then print the separate parts from the two nozzles.)

But yeah, the lasers are probably going to be necessary to get it absolutely perfect.

I used to print with PVA and PLA on my Flashforge Creator Pro using S3D default "PLA/PVA" settings. Maybe because tweaking was needed but I didn't do it, I got terrible results (PVA leaked everywhere, ruining the print) and it made me want to stay away from PVA.

I did find an interesting thing: My Up Plus 2 using the Up software (not open-source) can print the same object more nicely. It seems that it can print with supports that are "adhered to the hole" (pretty much like the "extra inflation distance" setting in S3D but it also generates supports for the "extra inflation distance support".) Sometimes when my M2 is not over- or under-extruding, I still find small holes in the top surface. Those are very small ones, or to say it more precisely, you won't think that's a hole, until you see the same object printed by the Up Plus 2. A very good example is the Bulbasaur Planter's top of its head (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:633081).

Do you have some good ideas about making supports for the "extra-inflation-distance" supports so that they are not in the air?

By the way, what do you mean by PLA works like a dream for PETG? Do you mean using PLA as supports for PETG prints? Do they adhere well? Easy to remove? What's the vertical separation layer and the infill of the supports?
Thanks!

[huangleike]

Can you provide an STL of some model that you are having difficulty printing? Perhaps some of us could give it a try and see if we can do it.

Yes I can upload it here, but it's a very long model and can take some time to print. The requirement is 80% infill, black ABS, 0.1 mm layer height. (I saw an article somewhere saying that don't print ABS in under 0.2 mm layer height because "ABS has too high of a viscosity when melted and printing in 100 microns could easily jam the nozzle and fail the print". Is this true? If yes, why is there a 0.1 mm ABS default setting in S3D?) I printed 0.2 mm layer height as last and had those problems in the thread. You can try 0.2 mm so that we could see what problems we got.

I would like some good advice on how to put the model on the bed as well. Thanks!

P.S. This file should not be sent to others or uploaded to public-sharing websites.

handle_1_flat.STL

(1.95 MiB) Downloaded 430 times

[huangleike]

The reference to shells was really for that particular model. What I'm learning to do more, and its pretty obvious, but I was just too excited to do in the beginning, is to look at the preview of the model, and look specifically in those areas for issues.

An example that I can use is, when I print something that I really care about the surface. You would be surprised to find out that I often see areas in the model along the perimeter where there is a lack of extrusion right in the preview. I can go back, add more overlap and bang all fixed. So I am learning to take sometime and check out the preview and realize its pretty damn to close to what the printout will be. You may find issues with it before you start printing.

Thank you for the advice! What do you mean by "add more overlap"?

[huangleike]

Is there a way, to print things with a perfect rounded bottom?

If you can split your object along the midline, print the parts with their rounded sides upward, then glue them together, you'll get nearly perfect results. Solvent-bonding two flat surfaces with alignment pins gives you excellent registration, an invisible joint (it lines up with the sidewall layers), and (if you do the glue properly) strength that's essentially equivalent to solid plastic (with a double-thickness bulkhead at the joint).

Otherwise, send it off to Shapeways. Their basic process also builds the object layer by layer, but they're laser-fusing plastic powder atop more powder: perfect support, all the way up, and it falls off when they pull the object out of the powder.

The process constraints are different than molten filament printing. In particular, you get a solid plastic object unless you design an interior void with a drain hole; they charge by total volume, making solid "infill" rather expensive.

I'm using the Gorilla Epoxy. Is it a kind of solvent bonding? (http://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-4200101-E ... rilla+glue)
I tried a few weeks ago and it didn't bond well. I can still break it more easily than breaking the original-printed object.

Haha Shapeways is expensive but their factory in Long Island City is so nice! I hope one day I will own those machines as well!

[Jules]

(PVA leaked everywhere, ruining the print) and it made me want to stay away from PVA.

Yeah, that's why i don't like it either.....i used to think PETG was sticky, till i ran across PVA. (And it sticks just about everywhere except where you want it to! )

Do you have some good ideas about making supports for the "extra-inflation-distance" supports so that they are not in the air?

Well, I've never tried it, but maybe someone else has. For skimpy topfill, the only thing i found that worked consistently was a lot of solid top layers, and infill in the 80% range. (It's much worse on rounded organic shapes.)

By the way, what do you mean by PLA works like a dream for PETG? Do you mean using PLA as supports for PETG prints?

Yep, that's exactly what i mean. You can have the PLA touching the PETG as support (zero separation) and because of the different nature of the filaments, the PLA generally pulls away clean. They just don't stick to each other. Gives a very nice finish on the underside, relatively speaking.

Matter of fact, given the rather crappy bridging nature of PETG, i would be inclined to pop a few PLA supports underneath to prop it up.

[swbluto]

I have a right to be pissed about a $2000 machine that can't do the same things my other $2000 machine can. In essence, I can't use it for my business, which means that it was a wasted business investment of $2000. So, yeah, I'm kind of pissed. You don't know how often I'm in the situation where I'm like, "it'd be nice to have another printer to get these orders out by the deadline but... oh that's right... it can't do it. Oh well, a day late and a dollar short"(Btw, TRUER THAN WORDS. You're a day late in my business, you not only risk dissatisfying the customer thus future orders, but customers reorder less frequently. Less frequent reordering = less money per month = less revenue.)

Wait, I can probably just sell the M2 and get two replacement machines. That's starting to seem like a good idea...

Man, if it's just not working for you - sell it. You'll probably get close to what you paid for it. Then you can buy one that you like.

Life's too short to waste it being furious over something that isn't going to be changed by being furious, KWIM? (High blood pressure is no joke.)

(If you decide that you do want to keep it though, you might try Slic3r and those meshes to slow down the extrusion on your small text areas - it's got some amazing capabilites, and could handle that easily.)

Lol, I have no problems with high blood pressure. It's amazing what exercise, wealth and a vegan lifestyle does for your blood-pressure numbers.

I still like the machine and I think it has promise (The overall design is intrinsically rigid enough, just that there's a few weak links in its current design version.). Just that the necessary parts need to be fabricated! To the machine tools, gents!

(To be truthful, the machines whose precision and overall printing excellence I like, they do have their downsides. Out of the box, they're nearly impossible to use on the software side of things. But, I just happen to be handy enough with code to make it easy to use, so that's not really an applicable downside for me, anymore.)

[I was about to say that it seemed like I noticed how I tend to admire chinese and german engineering while grass-roots American engineering tends to be subpar, but then I remembered the Flashforge /probably/ is well-engineered though I've no experience with it. Then I noticed this all-metal mount that's been developed is from some guy from Germany. Figures, lol.]