First layer of print being destroyed by 2nd layer

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Redwizard000
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First layer of print being destroyed by 2nd layer

Post by Redwizard000 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:52 am

Hello.

I have had the M2 for several weeks now and have printed many successful prints. One night I set a print and went to bed. The results were... just horrible. It printed about 1\8th of the print perfectly and then just printed a lump of plastic slag and strings. It looked like a pack of blue spiders had a drunken kegger on the print bed. I cleaned up the mess and now the printer no longer successfully prints. I am using the exact same model with the exact same software settings; absolutely nothing has changed.

The one on the top is what it is supposed to look like. The one on the bottom is what it is doing. It prints the raft perfectly, no issues. It prints the first layer of the actual object perfectly, no issues. The 2nd layer destroys the first layer just like that.

I have no idea what is causing the problem. I have re-leveled the bed. I have moved the printer to a new spot and re-leveled again. I have changed filaments. I tried yelling at it. I can't figure what is causing the issue.

I am using Simplify3d. Makergear plastic, ABS at 235 degrees. The bed is heated to 100 degrees.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

RW
IMAG00033.jpg
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lem
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Re: First layer of print being destroyed by 2nd layer

Post by lem » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:23 pm

First I would look for obstructions on the Z-axis from your failed print. Have you lubricated the Z-axis? Just a thought.

Edit: Also check bed level.

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Jules
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Re: First layer of print being destroyed by 2nd layer

Post by Jules » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:58 pm

(Chuckle! Yelling at it is one of my all-time-favorite techniques!) I'm sorry, but I've never printed ABS, one of the other guys is going to have to help you with settings. I do know that it needs to be kept warmer than PLA or it starts to warp...is it possible that a night-time temperature drop is messing it up? Is it under a draft? (I print PETG at 245, maybe increasing the temp would help?) It appears to start out fine, and then looks like as it's getting over the cooler areas, it just stops bonding entirely. You can see the line where it starts to get into trouble (the strands stop bonding to each other) and then clearly where it fails (the strands don't stick, and warp up and make a big mess.)

(It might need an enclosure to level out the temperature.)

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jimc
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Re: First layer of print being destroyed by 2nd layer

Post by jimc » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:41 pm

the pic is so blurry its very hard to tell whats going on there. its on one side of the model though and not the other so i would look for an out of level bed and double check you bed gap. if the first layer doesnt go down right then the second wont either.

Redwizard000
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Re: First layer of print being destroyed by 2nd layer

Post by Redwizard000 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:35 pm

jimc wrote:the pic is so blurry its very hard to tell whats going on there. its on one side of the model though and not the other so i would look for an out of level bed and double check you bed gap. if the first layer doesnt go down right then the second wont either.
It takes out the whole 2nd layer, I just stopped it before it could in this instance. This is like the 5th failure.
Jules wrote:(Chuckle! Yelling at it is one of my all-time-favorite techniques!) I'm sorry, but I've never printed ABS, one of the other guys is going to have to help you with settings. I do know that it needs to be kept warmer than PLA or it starts to warp...is it possible that a night-time temperature drop is messing it up? Is it under a draft? (I print PETG at 245, maybe increasing the temp would help?) It appears to start out fine, and then looks like as it's getting over the cooler areas, it just stops bonding entirely. You can see the line where it starts to get into trouble (the strands stop bonding to each other) and then clearly where it fails (the strands don't stick, and warp up and make a big mess.)

(It might need an enclosure to level out the temperature.)
There is no draft, I do have the machine inside an enclosure. It has printed this same model dozens of times with no issue from this location. The strands don't really warp up, it is more like the extruder head is too low and it is digging them out. The first layer looks fine until the 2nd starts to print. And wouldn't the raft have the same problem if it was a temperature or level issue? The raft prints perfectly.
lem wrote:First I would look for obstructions on the Z-axis from your failed print. Have you lubricated the Z-axis? Just a thought.

Edit: Also check bed level.
I have leveled the bed several times. Doesn't seem to make any noticeable difference. I was getting pretty much constant use out of the machine for the last few weeks. This just started happening. I assume you are talking about lubricating the jackscrew? With what, that white stuff that the machine came with? I will try that. And I will check the bed level again.

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PcS
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Re: First layer of print being destroyed by 2nd layer

Post by PcS » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:02 pm

Check z height . And a raft is generally really thick layers so you can be off a lot on level and z height.

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jimc
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Re: First layer of print being destroyed by 2nd layer

Post by jimc » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:20 pm

Zip up a factory file and post it so we can take a look

jsc
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Re: First layer of print being destroyed by 2nd layer

Post by jsc » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:44 pm

I think, based on how it's failing across a diagonal horizontal line like that, that it's probably due to a subtle mechanical failure. Maybe check your extruder mount; see if it is solid, and doesn't rotate back and forth at all. It can crack.

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Jules
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Re: First layer of print being destroyed by 2nd layer

Post by Jules » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:53 pm

Redwizard000 wrote:...it is more like the extruder head is too low and it is digging them out. The first layer looks fine until the 2nd starts to print. And wouldn't the raft have the same problem if it was a temperature or level issue? The raft prints perfectly.
If you are super sure that the bed is level relative to the nozzle, and that your Z-stop height is correct, here are a few other things you might try, to help you pinpoint the problem, so the guys know what to tell you....

Is the raft evenly adhered all the way around to the bed? Is the first layer adhering to the raft at all spots? (Really doesn't take much warping to make the nozzle drag through the print - you might have to measure it with calipers to see it on the first layers, but the effect is cummulative, and it can wreck a print quickly.) What are you using to stick the print down? Might want to give it another coat. Is the glass clipped down?

Did you check to see if the bed is heating evenly? (No print, just turn it on (low), and put your hand on it in various spots.) Or try moving the print and printing it in a different place on the bed.

Did you check for new cracks in the mounts? Did you carefully check the hotend and make sure nothing got bent by the big wad of plastic? (V4?) You might not necessarily see it unless you remove that fabric cover.

Maybe you can run a print and watch it carefully when it gets to that point - you might be able to see what's causing it.

Good luck! :)

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PcS
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Re: First layer of print being destroyed by 2nd layer

Post by PcS » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:49 pm

To be honest I could not tell anything from that picture. I feel like mr. Magoo.

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