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PETG Perimeter Separation

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:46 pm
by CCRN
Printing with eSun PETG Orange (which is a translucent) on boro with hairspray. I used Jules guide for the Black PETG and it printed well except the perimeter is separating. Here is a picture. Not sure how to fix this issue.
IMG_2904.JPG

Re: PETG Perimeter Separation

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:38 pm
by 3dPrintingMD
Infill tab, Outline Overlap, Increase it. This will ensure that the infill layers make solid contact with the perimeters, and hold it all together.

Re: PETG Perimeter Separation

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:54 am
by CCRN
3dPrintingMD wrote:Infill tab, Outline Overlap, Increase it. This will ensure that the infill layers make solid contact with the perimeters, and hold it all together.
Thank you. It was at 10% and I increased to 15%. Reprinting now.

Re: PETG Perimeter Separation

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:53 am
by jimc
ummmm not really. outline overlap is how far the infill overlaps onto the perimeter not how much each outline overlaps onto each other. your perimeters arent bonding to the one next to it because your extrusion multiplier is too low. your not extruding enough filament to make the extrusion width as wide as its supposed to be. basically in real life your extrusion width isnt what you have it set to in the slicing software. you tweak this with the multiplier.

Re: PETG Perimeter Separation

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:59 pm
by kskiff7034
I know this post is old, but I'm curious if a solution was ever found? I'm having the same exact issue. I'm printing parts to build a D-bot so I want to have everything print as high quality as possible. I'm using PETG and I've upped my Infill Overlap from 10 to 15 and then to 18 and its still giving me issues. I also upped my extrusion multiplier by 3% and that didnt seem to resolve it either. How much can I up the overlap setting? Are there any unintended consequences to be aware of?

Re: PETG Perimeter Separation

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:38 pm
by Phil
How many outer layers do you use? If you use more than one, the overlap will not help. Keep increasing the extrusion multiplier.

Think about how the extrusion process works; a rectangular-ish stream of plastic is deposited to the substrate. Your slicing software determines how far apart these streams are, but you determine the size and shape of the rectangle. (You do so by your choice of nozzle diameter, layer height, extrusion multiplier, etc.) If your slicing software 'thinks' each stream is close enough together to bond, but the amount of material coming out of your nozzle makes the rectangle too narrow, you will get the results you are seeing with delamination of the outer layer. Adding to the extrusion multiplier will make the rectangle a little wider, since the layer height remains the same. If you go too far, you will get plastic oozing up around the nozzle as extrusions are deposited beside one another.

I often watch my first layer printing. (I highly recommend buying a magnifier lamp for this and more.) Try an experiment. Set up to print a large, flat surface. As the first layer prints, you can adjust your Z-axis knob to see how it affects the results. Since you cannot adjust the extrusion multiplier while running, this will serve as a proxy. Notice how the shape of the extrusion changes and how each extruder pass engages with the last. You will also notice how well each sticks to your substrate. Try it again using a substantially different extrusion multiplier. Try it with different nozzle sizes. Learn what you can!

Re: PETG Perimeter Separation

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:04 pm
by airscapes
kskiff7034 wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:59 pm
I know this post is old, but I'm curious if a solution was ever found? I'm having the same exact issue. I'm printing parts to build a D-bot so I want to have everything print as high quality as possible. I'm using PETG and I've upped my Infill Overlap from 10 to 15 and then to 18 and its still giving me issues. I also upped my extrusion multiplier by 3% and that didnt seem to resolve it either. How much can I up the overlap setting? Are there any unintended consequences to be aware of?
Just tried eSun PETG last week but have not done much with it yet. Will be printing a new M2 Filament Drive this weekend.
I don't know your experience level or what machine you are using (Not that I have a lot of experience or know anything about machines other than the M2) but I have learned, stating height and Extruder Multiplier must be set Correctly or all bets are off.

If you don't have an accurate Digital Caliper and jewelers loop, you need to get both.
Assuming you are using the MG .35mm nozzle with and extrude width of .4 (S3D default) print the attached SLT with thin-walls enabled (advance tab left side) and a layer height of .2, speed 30mmS

The resulting square should be .2mm thick +-.02 and it should be 2mm tall. Look at the bottom layer with the loop should not see a lot of elephant foot and that first layer should look very close to that of the the second.
If you square is too tall, your starting height is too high. If your walls are too thick your extruder multiplier is too high.


Not sure if the way I adjust starting height is the same across all printer so won't post that here.. if you are using M2 let me know and I will.
26x26x2.4.stl
(1.64 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

Re: PETG Perimeter Separation

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:45 pm
by kskiff7034
I have a cheap calipher, but it only has a resolution of .1mm. I just ordered one that goes to .01 today so I can better fine tune extrusion multiplier. Thanks for the advice guys -- it's in line with what I was expecting so it doesnt seem like I'm missing anything.

Re: PETG Perimeter Separation

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:40 pm
by airscapes
Let us know how you make out and if I learn anything interesting about PETG this weekend I will post. I just recently bought a new caliper myself, the old one was not always reliable .. got of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001A ... UTF8&psc=1
Also what printer are you using?

Re: PETG Perimeter Separation

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:21 pm
by kskiff7034
Haha that's the exact calipher I bought too.

I'm using M3ID Rev 1. I've also got a Maker Select Plus and will be starting my d-bot build this weekend.

~3 weeks ago I got the Maker Select Plus and instantly fell in love, so I jumped in with both feed and haven't stopped since.