Lossing Bed Level

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corsecprops
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Lossing Bed Level

Post by corsecprops » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:36 am

I am constantly losing bed level. I dial it in and after a few prints its out again. I have no idea what is causing this. I have several sheets of glass so I checked them and they seem to be close enough to not cause an issue. (around 0.05mm) I get several prints out and then it will start failing again and pulling up. Ideas?

Bratag
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Re: Lossing Bed Level

Post by Bratag » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:17 am

corsecprops wrote:I am constantly losing bed level. I dial it in and after a few prints its out again. I have no idea what is causing this. I have several sheets of glass so I checked them and they seem to be close enough to not cause an issue. (around 0.05mm) I get several prints out and then it will start failing again and pulling up. Ideas?
Are you sure its the bed going out of level or is the z stop moving and causing the bed to move further away?

corsecprops
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Re: Lossing Bed Level

Post by corsecprops » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:20 am

The Zstop seems to be solid and doesn't move at all. Its weird. I can print for a while and then the bed is out of alignment again and stuff starts pulling up. I thought it was from trying to pull up the prints without removing it so I started making sure to remove the plate before removing a print. Just not sure what is going on.

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ednisley
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Re: Lossing Bed Level

Post by ednisley » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:17 pm

corsecprops wrote:constantly losing bed level
A recent thread suggested Loctite on the platform adjusting screws. To diagnose screw movement, mark the screw heads and examine them after each print: if the marks don't stay lined up, that's the problem.

A cracked or loose filament drive can wreck the alignment without being obvious. Grab the plastic and give it a wiggle: it shouldn't move at all relative to the motor and X-axis carriage.

The hot end must be firmly clamped in place under the filament drive. Old V3 hot ends depended on a metal-to-plastic snap fit that tends to loosen and V4 hot ends have a wee screw that can work loose. Grab & wiggle!

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insta
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Re: Lossing Bed Level

Post by insta » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:02 pm

wiggle a V4 gently, so you don't break the heatbreak.
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Gwhite
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Re: Lossing Bed Level

Post by Gwhite » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:53 am

I don't think I'm losing my bed level, but I suspect I'm about to...

I have an M2E, and I'm having a hard time getting my print loose. I'm currently running PETG on the polyimide film, and it sticks REALLY well. The latest print job & bed are in the freezer right now in the hopes that will pop it loose.

A couple questions:

1) As the OP suggested, if you are fighting with getting a print loose, I can imagine that you can easily knock the bed out of level. It it common to remove the bed to try to pry a print loose?

2) I assume that you can replace the bed afterward without releveling. Is that true, or is it a good idea to check the level any time you remove the bed?

3) If the best way to get my prints loose is to freeze them, one way to be able to keep printing is to get a spare bed and swap back & forth. Does anyone know if the tolerances on the beds are tight enough that they can be swapped without releveling?

Thanks!

3dPrintingMD
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Re: Lossing Bed Level

Post by 3dPrintingMD » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:01 am

YOU SHOULD NEVER TRY TO REMOVE A PRINT FROM THE BED WHILE ON THE PRINTER!

Sorry that I had to scream, but I can tell you with 100% confidence not only will this knock your bed out of level, it will ruin the linear bearings that the bed rides on. Ask me how I know.
M2 - V4, MIC-6 Build Plate, Astrosyn Damper's(X/Y), Rev. E, Geeetech LCD

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Gwhite
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Re: Lossing Bed Level

Post by Gwhite » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:16 pm

Quite alright. I just wish I had known sooner. Fortunately, I haven't had the machine long & I haven't exactly been hammering on it. Most of the parts I've made were PLA, and came up quite easily by flexing them until they popped loose.

I'm guessing that if you remove the bed after every print, that re-zeroing isn't necessary.

It still leaves the question of whether or not you can swap beds in & out without re-zeroing. I suspect that isn't possible unless you get lucky.

A night in the freezer didn't help the PETG print. It's warming up now & maybe the temperature swing will help. If freezing doesn't help, I may not need the extra bed anyway.

I'll re-level & zero things when I get the print off & replace the bed.

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ednisley
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Re: Lossing Bed Level

Post by ednisley » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:36 pm

Gwhite wrote:I assume that you can replace the bed afterward without releveling.
It is again written: Hell hath no fury like that of an unjustified assumption.

The discussion of warping around this post remains relevant:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3334&p=22526&hilit= ... ion#p22526

Image

A foreign object the size of a human hair can wreck the alignment required for good adhesion, as will even slightly bending anything supporting the platform.

Beating on the printer to remove an object is a Bad Idea, as is removing / replacing the platform without verifying its alignment. Whenever you do anything that might affect the platform or nozzle, print & measure five thinwall hollow boxes (one in the middle, four in the corners) to verify the Z-axis offset and platform alignment. If the boxes have the correct height, you're good to go; if not, you have instant feedback telling you what to adjust and what not to do the next time around.

Rule of thumb: treating the M2 as the extremely accurate and somewhat delicate machine tool it is pays enormous dividends.

Gwhite
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Re: Lossing Bed Level

Post by Gwhite » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:33 pm

I can probably run through the full alignment process in the Quick Start app in less time than it takes to setup, print, remove & then measure test prints. Besides, if I have to pry the test prints off, I've apparently risked ruining my alignment again. At least if I use the Quick Start app, I'm good to go, as opposed to discovering I'm off & then having to run the Quick Start app to fix it....

Do people actually A) remove their bed every time to retrieve their prints, and then B) go through a full alignment check before proceeding to the next print?

I will be very curious to see how badly out of whack my bed is after I've reinstalled it. I should be able to tell exactly how many microns I'm off when I do the bed leveling.

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