M2 new user experience

Need some assistance getting started...post here...
CCVirginia
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:31 pm

M2 new user experience

Post by CCVirginia » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:27 pm

Having received my new M2 recently :D , I thought some of my early experiences may be helpful to others.

I received one of the first M2s (assembled) with the V4 hot end and am using it with Simplify3D (v3.01). I am new to 3D printing but have been keeping up with the forums for my own education. So far I have just printed some home items and kid stuff, but have more ambitious projects in mind. I’m going to break this thread up into a few posts on different aspects of getting started.

Why I purchased the M2: The reported positive user experiences and stability of the M2 as well as the supportive community were major factors. It is clear that a lot of people spend a lot of time getting other printers to just work, there are sufficient challenges with this technology such that a reliable and precise machine and software is worthwhile. Some other high quality printers are limited to proprietary or a few filament types. Particularly with the V4 hot end, the M2 should do just about anything.

Has it lived up to the reputation? In my short experience I would say that the M2 has lived up to this reputation. The hardware has performed almost flawlessly. This is not to say there are no issues, but I think these are mostly due to my own learning curve and the state of the technology. The initial prints look great. I have been experimenting with some filaments (e.g. Pet+ and Inland PLA) which introduces some variables (More on this in a later post). Using the provided MG black filament I was able to have several successful prints the first time – from my reading, this is quite good. I have had no issues with the new V4 hot end. The support has been prompt and helpful.

New user advice:
There were 2 issues due to documentation not up to date: 1) On initial setup the video says the fans will come on, they didn’t. This is due to a firmware change and is now the expected behavior. 2) The Z-Stop is now set with a very easy to use software utility instead of hardware – this is not mentioned in any documentation I have found. So, for new users – find “MG Host” on your SD card and don’t mess with bed leveling unless you have to! My suggestion to MG is to have documentation based on machine revision and to make sure it is up to date with the various improvements and specifications (e.g. hot end temp range).

Other issues:
Curls/Blobs on starting a print: When starting a print the filament will ALWAYS curl back on the hot end and sometimes make blobs. I have taken to pulling the filament down when it starts. Sometimes this seems to happen during a print but it is hard to tell. I have tried the cleaning techniques. Even after start the filament seems to come out slightly (like 1-2 degrees) to one side. MG support says this is normal.

Where is zero? When you tell the printer to goto zero-Z and use manual control in Simplify3D (Also tried in Octoprint) it goes to the bottom (not zero) and the Z controls are reversed. But, when you print it finds the real zero. After a print the Z controls work as expected. Suspect this is a firmware issue, annoying but not a show stopper.

Extruder temp restarting: In Simplify3D when you stop a print or it has gone to sleep, if you tell it to print the extruder will not go to temp. You have to turn on the extruder first, then start the print. Probably a Simplify issue, also annoying but not a show stopper.

I will follow-up with more on the actual printing experience.

User avatar
Tim
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:19 pm
Location: Poolesville, Maryland
Contact:

Re: M2 new user experience

Post by Tim » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:05 pm

CCVirginia wrote: Curls/Blobs on starting a print: When starting a print the filament will ALWAYS curl back on the hot end and sometimes make blobs. I have taken to pulling the filament down when it starts. Sometimes this seems to happen during a print but it is hard to tell. I have tried the cleaning techniques. Even after start the filament seems to come out slightly (like 1-2 degrees) to one side. MG support says this is normal.
This can be due to blockage in the extruder, although if your extruder is new, it is more likely just due to slight imperfections in the nozzle, and is normal. If due to blockage, it will often resolve itself after a while, or you can get some cleaning filament from eSUN to use when changing filaments. As a last resort, blow-torch the nozzle.
CCVirginia wrote: Where is zero? When you tell the printer to goto zero-Z and use manual control in Simplify3D (Also tried in Octoprint) it goes to the bottom (not zero) and the Z controls are reversed. But, when you print it finds the real zero. After a print the Z controls work as expected. Suspect this is a firmware issue, annoying but not a show stopper.
The Z-stop on the bottom is a new feature of only the most recent M2s. This is supposed to be an improvement over having the Z limit switch at the top. You will probably get a lot of questions from veteran forum members asking you how it works, and whether you like it. That this method is not well documented nor compatible with S3D defaults for the M2 is not surprising. Hopefully those annoyances will go away over time.
CCVirginia wrote: Extruder temp restarting: In Simplify3D when you stop a print or it has gone to sleep, if you tell it to print the extruder will not go to temp. You have to turn on the extruder first, then start the print. Probably a Simplify issue, also annoying but not a show stopper.
This is probably the most controversial "feature" of S3D version 3.0, and has annoyed basically everybody who has upgraded to the 3.0 version. We all hope that the next S3D bugfix distribution will correct it, or revert it, or do something, anything, please oh please.

CCVirginia
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:31 pm

Re: M2 new user experience

Post by CCVirginia » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:24 pm

Thanks Jim,
If due to blockage, it will often resolve itself after a while, or you can get some cleaning filament from eSUN to use when changing filaments. As a last resort, blow-torch the nozzle.
I did get some cleaning filament from the local Microcenter, not sure if it is eSun - it is thin and does not feed well but I was able to push some through. No change. As for "blow-torch the nozzle", I assume you do this with the nozzle removed. I'm not sure how to do that as it would be all full of hard plastic or, if hot, the plastic could get in bad places. I have not found any "maintenance" instructions for things like that. I did try the cold pull, not sure I did it right. I also fished about with a wire that fit in the end when it was hot.
You will probably get a lot of questions from veteran forum members asking you how it works, and whether you like it.
The software Top Z-Stop based on the hardware bottom Z-Stop seems easier to calibrate than what I saw in the video. Of course this depends on a high degree of repeatability in computing the top from the bottom, so far it has worked but a "hard stop" would seem safer. The firmware needs to be modified to recognize this "virtual" top Z-Stop so other software works. It would be nice if the "MG Host" software had a "tweek" for the position instead of having to go thru the full procedure every time.


By the way, seems like we are near - I am in Fairfax VA.

User avatar
Tim
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:19 pm
Location: Poolesville, Maryland
Contact:

Re: M2 new user experience

Post by Tim » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:35 am

CCVirginia wrote:By the way, seems like we are near - I am in Fairfax VA.
Hang out at NOVA Makerspace much? I went there a couple of times but it's a bit of a hike to do often. Nice to have another M2 so close by, though. Just across the river.
CCVirginia wrote:I also fished about with a wire that fit in the end when it was hot.
I do that, too, with the needle that came with my Koh-i-noor 0.3mm mechanical pencil for cleaning lead out of the bore. I have never resorted to blasting the nozzle with a butane torch myself (yes, after removing it), but others swear by it. So far, the gentler methods have always worked for me.

CCVirginia
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:31 pm

Re: M2 new user experience - Hardware calibration and mainte

Post by CCVirginia » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:47 pm

Continuation of experience on Hardware calibration and maintenance.

For initial hardware calibration there are really only 2 parts, bed leveling and Z stop. Bed leveling has this horrible reputation, I don't think I did that great a job on the first try but still it worked reasonably well. With all the talk about this you would think if it was a bit off you would see plastic spaghetti and ruined prints. Well, it was not that bad. I then found this method from swbluto:
swbluto: I use the "cross" and it works well for me. Front middle, back middle, then middle left and middle right. Works right for me everytime.
I used metal feeler gauges from the auto store instead of paper (but they use fractions of an inch s the primary measure instead of MM - yuck).

Well, that was easy! The bed is now quite level.

Then to set the Z position you use the "MG Host" program, which sets Z in the firmware instead of having to twiddle screws - this is a new feature of the latest M2. This is a quick and easy process. The down-side is that this "virtual" Z-Top is not supported by other software's manual movement controls. I would suggest a few improvements to the "MG Host" program: 1) Ability to home the "Z-Top" and do all that Simplify3D should be doing for manual control. 2) Ability to "tweek" settings without redoing the process. 3) Ability to calibrate to a finer resolution than .1mm.

Overall, the hardware calibration was not hard once I found these hints.

What I don't see is instructions for maintenance beyond the trivial (e.g. grease the rails). How to adjust belt tension, disassemble the hot end, etc. Perhaps this info can be gleaned from the forum, kit instructions and support, but it would be nice to have it in one place. But for now no such maintenance is needed.

The real challenge is getting all the filament and build parameters right, more on this in another post!

grievence
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: M2 new user experience

Post by grievence » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:04 am

i'm sort of curious about this z stop; my printer only shipped friday and (i possibly missed it in the fray of box opening) didn't get the SD card. my Z stop is acting up which thus far i've attributed to a short in the wire; i guess I could have set it up wrong if it's one of the new ones.

CCVirginia
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:31 pm

Re: M2 new user experience

Post by CCVirginia » Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:48 am

grievence wrote:i'm sort of curious about this z stop; my printer only shipped friday and (i possibly missed it in the fray of box opening) didn't get the SD card. my Z stop is acting up which thus far i've attributed to a short in the wire; i guess I could have set it up wrong if it's one of the new ones.
If your Physical z-Stop switch is on the top you don't need the software and can use the procedure in the video. If its on the bottom you need the software, which I'm sure MG can supply online. Note that I kind of bothered Rick to get the version with the V4 extruder, so perhaps mine is a bit experimental.

I saw your posts about the light - sounds like a hardware problem to me. The z-stop I have does not have a light at all. What I would do is attach a voltmeter across the switch to see if it is closing when it should not, but perhaps support has a better idea.

grievence
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: M2 new user experience

Post by grievence » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:38 am

yea i just emailed them a few minutes ago; was trying to check through the forums first as to hopefully save myself from looking stupid :lol:

CCVirginia
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:31 pm

Re: M2 new user experience

Post by CCVirginia » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:00 pm

I was having odd problems with "see through" sections and other strange issues like layer shifts and blobs. At first I thought it was a "dial it in" problem, then a slicer problem, but narrowed it down to a bad spot in Y the belt at the mid point. A new one is on the way, but I thought others should be aware to check the belts. I have uploaded a picture of the odd pattern and the belt.
No idea what would have caused this, perhaps just a one-off problem.
Attachments
Pattern.jpg
Odd pattern
Pattern.jpg (20.59 KiB) Viewed 11721 times
Belt.jpg
Bad belt
Belt.jpg (21.92 KiB) Viewed 11721 times
Last edited by CCVirginia on Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Jules
Posts: 3144
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:36 am

Re: M2 new user experience

Post by Jules » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:35 pm

Yup. Bad belt. :shock:
(Don't ever remember seeing it mentioned anywhere else though, so it's definitely not a common thing. Bummer! :cry: )

Post Reply