Noob questions

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Cybergooch
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:18 am

Noob questions

Post by Cybergooch » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:36 am

Just received my M2 today. Got it set up pretty quickly and am working on my first prints.

A few questions:

First, I want to make sure I've got the right printer setup. I bought Simplify 3D, and in the setup there were like 3 different M2's listed.
I think I picked the 24v v4 head (the manual says v4 rev. D).

Things are working pretty well overall, only problem so far is that on a couple models, smaller parts off to the side are popping loose from the plate.
The manual said that you don't have to use that special tape if you're printing with PLA, so maybe it's a temperature issue?

I was at 215 on the extruder and 70 on the plate.

Guess I have some more reading up to do, but was wondering if there's usually a specific reason for things not sticking during the start of the print (especially smaller bits)
Thanks!

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Jules
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:36 am

Re: Noob questions

Post by Jules » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:22 pm

1. Yep. That's the right one.

2. It's common - read through the Beginner's Guide below for ideas on how to stick it more securely. (People use tapes and adhesives.)

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3342

PLA warps as it cools, and pulls loose from the bed. The smaller the "footprint" the more likely it is to pull off.

Cybergooch
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Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:18 am

Re: Noob questions

Post by Cybergooch » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:59 am

Thanks for the reply.

I've been reading up on it a bit, and it sounds like those who have tried the PEI have been pretty happy with it.
I think I'd rather go that route than the hairspray/glue stick.

Are there any disadvantages to the PEI?

ajmadison
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:13 am

Re: Noob questions

Post by ajmadison » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:59 pm

Not sure where to post my observations. This past weekend was the second weekend I had my M2 printing.

I've been printing with the spool provided with the printer and using 215 C (extruder)/70 C (bed). I've read that you want to run as cool as possible, and even found the FFF file posted to thingiverse with hundreds of hours of experience behind it. I did not have success with it, more on that in a second.

I've also read that one should set the temps lower than 215C / 70C and to set up an external fan to run after layer 1 is down.

So with all that, I was printing my first object that required overhand supports, and with lower temps and the external fan running. And somewhere around layer 4 or 5, the fan blows some of the strands of the supports loose and are flailing around. I hit the abort button in S3D. So... my external fan may be too strong/too close. I can believe that. Up until that point, I really was yet to have a failed print. Being relatively new, I'm sure the conventional wisdom isn't wrong, so I'm not criticizing the thingiverse M2 FFF file.

Getting to the point, my print room is in the man cave in my basement, which runs about 50F. Frankly, I like the results I'm getting, so going to stay with the higher temps and no external fan for the time being. I realize many of us don't have a extra-cool living space for your printer room, but if have one, might want to try printing in it.

My own biggest frustration so far, was getting prints off the bed. I've been running with only the factory applied Kapton (at first) then applying hairspray (though not the highly recommended Fructis). Over the weekend I found that I shouldn't be prying the prints off the glass, but "freezing" them off. In the process, I've damaged the factory applied tape and the last print ripped it as it came off. Its interesting that there is so much beginner discussion on getting a successful print, but not as much on freeing it from the build plate. I will be applying new Kapton, applying a coating of hair spay, patiently waiting for the hair spray to dry, then freezing my prints to coax them off the glass.

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Jules
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Re: Noob questions

Post by Jules » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:10 pm

Cybergooch wrote:Thanks for the reply.

I've been reading up on it a bit, and it sounds like those who have tried the PEI have been pretty happy with it.
I think I'd rather go that route than the hairspray/glue stick.

Are there any disadvantages to the PEI?
Fresh out of the package you'll want to sand it with some super-fine grade sandpaper or a Magic Eraser to give it a little tooth - it''s almost too smooth. Application is a bit of a pain, because of the tape you have to use, but once you get it applied, it really hasn't got any negatives that I've seen yet. Once in a while, I might have a corner pull up on a large print, I just increase the bed temp a few degrees and the next one does fine.

Guess the main negative is that it's butt-ugly. :lol: Not a great color, and you will see bubbles underneath in the tape - but it doesn't affect prints. It's a very good choice for PLA. :D

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Jules
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Re: Noob questions

Post by Jules » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:29 pm

ajmadison wrote:Not sure where to post my observations. This past weekend was the second weekend I had my M2 printing.

I've been printing with the spool provided with the printer and using 215 C (extruder)/70 C (bed). I've read that you want to run as cool as possible, and even found the FFF file posted to thingiverse with hundreds of hours of experience behind it. I did not have success with it, more on that in a second.

I've also read that one should set the temps lower than 215C / 70C and to set up an external fan to run after layer 1 is down.

So with all that, I was printing my first object that required overhand supports, and with lower temps and the external fan running. And somewhere around layer 4 or 5, the fan blows some of the strands of the supports loose and are flailing around. I hit the abort button in S3D. So... my external fan may be too strong/too close. I can believe that. Up until that point, I really was yet to have a failed print. Being relatively new, I'm sure the conventional wisdom isn't wrong, so I'm not criticizing the thingiverse M2 FFF file.

Getting to the point, my print room is in the man cave in my basement, which runs about 50F. Frankly, I like the results I'm getting, so going to stay with the higher temps and no external fan for the time being. I realize many of us don't have a extra-cool living space for your printer room, but if have one, might want to try printing in it.

My own biggest frustration so far, was getting prints off the bed. I've been running with only the factory applied Kapton (at first) then applying hairspray (though not the highly recommended Fructis). Over the weekend I found that I shouldn't be prying the prints off the glass, but "freezing" them off. In the process, I've damaged the factory applied tape and the last print ripped it as it came off. Its interesting that there is so much beginner discussion on getting a successful print, but not as much on freeing it from the build plate. I will be applying new Kapton, applying a coating of hair spay, patiently waiting for the hair spray to dry, then freezing my prints to coax them off the glass.
Bummer! Which Thingiverse M2 FFF file are you running? Because I'll bet you anything it was created for a different nozzle than what you're using now. It's okay to use those if you know which settings you have to change before you use it, but you need to match your machine and conditions, not just drop in someone else's settings. (They never work well that way.)

Sorry to hear about the print removal issue as well....we've all done it. :?

Did you read through the Beginner's Guide? (It's got a whole section on PLA settings, as well as a discussion in the Troubleshooting section on freezing your prints off the plate, as well as some very important Calibrations that make prints turn out better.) :D

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3342

ajmadison
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:13 am

Re: Noob questions

Post by ajmadison » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:39 pm

Jules wrote:
ajmadison wrote:Not sure where to post my observations. This past weekend was the second weekend I had my M2 printing.

<snippage>

My own biggest frustration so far, was getting prints off the bed. I've been running with only the factory applied Kapton (at first) then applying hairspray (though not the highly recommended Fructis). Over the weekend I found that I shouldn't be prying the prints off the glass, but "freezing" them off. In the process, I've damaged the factory applied tape and the last print ripped it as it came off. Its interesting that there is so much beginner discussion on getting a successful print, but not as much on freeing it from the build plate. I will be applying new Kapton, applying a coating of hair spay, patiently waiting for the hair spray to dry, then freezing my prints to coax them off the glass.
Bummer! Which Thingiverse M2 FFF file are you running? Because I'll bet you anything it was created for a different nozzle than what you're using now. It's okay to use those if you know which settings you have to change before you use it, but you need to match your machine and conditions, not just drop in someone else's settings. (They never work well that way.)

Sorry to hear about the print removal issue as well....we've all done it. :?

Did you read through the Beginner's Guide? (It's got a whole section on PLA settings, as well as a discussion in the Troubleshooting section on freezing your prints off the plate, as well as some very important Calibrations that make prints turn out better.) :D

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3342
Yes, the amount of first time user information is outstanding. So much so, that I obsessed looking for more tutorials on the steps after the first print.

Thanks for the feedback. I had forgotten that I have a M2-V4 and its revised nozzle, which IIRC, the temp ranges for it are different from the earlier nozzles. Not exactly sure where the posting is here on forum.makergear but someone had put a pointer to a process file that landed in thingiverse, and its not a 'thing', but, 'accessory' maybe? I've merged my preferred temps with this file, and prints have been coming out pretty good, but I've learned that fine detail requires some finesse with the settings.

Despite some new frustration with putting down a bubble-free (ere, almost bubble-free) new layer of Kapton, my bed release issues appear to be solved. I reprinted something that was a 'bear' to get off the bed before, but a coating of hairspray on the kapton, and some light sideways pressure, and the print popped right off. Garnier Ultra-5. I'm a believer. Just printing PLA now, though.

jsc
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:00 am

Re: Noob questions

Post by jsc » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:15 pm

Bubble-free kapton: Check youtube for videos. Put down some water with a little dishwasher detergent in it to lay down the tape. It will help you position the tape easily, without bubbles, then you can squeegee it out and wait for the rest to dry.

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willnewton
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:32 pm

Re: Noob questions

Post by willnewton » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:57 pm

Don't forget to try wide blue painter's tape. It is a very practical bed surface that is easy to apply and replace.

As for your fan blowing the supports loose....if your fan blows your supports over, it's not the fan's fault. :) You need to tighten up the nozzle gap a bit, maybe check your bed level if it occurred off to one side.

In S3D, go to the Process Settings/G-code page, click on the Z-axis offset and enter -0.10 or maybe -0.05 (if you are getting too much "flare" on layer 1) and see if that helps. I usually work in 0.10 increments and fine tune as needed.

The stock MG setting is good start. This is a good set as well. You will find your self playing with temps as you go along, expect to run about 10º higher than recommended for most stuff.http://www.thingiverse.com/rsilvers/designs
I'm finally back to where I started two days ago!

A thread with some stuff in it I update every once in a while. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9
See some of my stuff http://www.thingiverse.com/willnewton/about

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