So... what causes this

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Neep
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So... what causes this

Post by Neep » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:49 pm

Image

I am fairly new, only had my printer a week or two and have about a 60-70% print success rate. Generally the simpler the print, the better the success rate. However, I'd like to be able to print complex things. :cry:

This print was of this: http://www.shapeways.com/product/A4RN7Y ... er-profile

I put some default supports from Simplify3D in the print to try to prevent badness from occurring but obviously it didnt work. No raft, but default skirt for V4 extruder.

Seems like the base printed fine though

Settings:
Filament: eSun Orange PLA
Extruder Temp: 218C
Plate temp: 80C

Any help as to what is wrong?

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jimc
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Re: So... what causes this

Post by jimc » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:41 am

looks like something detached from the bed mid print then it just kept extruding noodles all over. something could have gotten knocked off like a support pillar then its like a snowball effect.

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Jules
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Re: So... what causes this

Post by Jules » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:11 am

Couple of possibilities that i can see......

You didn't use adhesive and your print either warped up causing the nozzle to hit it, (it's kind of hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like you've got PLA stuck to the outside of it), or your supports got knocked over, and you weren't watching, and the nozzle just kept printing over thin air for a while. (Bird's nest.)

Try using some adhesive (hairspray or gluestick), take the plate temp down to 50°C and the extruder temp down to 205°C. The hotter you print PLA, the slower it cools, and it needs to cool immediately after it exits the nozzle, or it causes warping problems. (Pretty sure the troll or the base warped up and hit the nozzle, causing the bird's nest.)

Another thing you can do to cool it off faster is remove the fan guard on the bed fan. (Just be careful not to stick filament in the fan when you're loading it.)

Also, for that particular object, you will have to print that troll shape with a raft. It's curved upwards, and it's going to have a very unattractive finish on the bottom because of it. But in order to secure that shape to the bed, it's going to have to be a raft - support is just not going to be enough by itself. It will keep getting knocked over.

Got to tell you, i would have more than a little trouble printing that shape. Your best bet would probably be to cut it into pieces, print the parts with the flat (cut) side on the bed, and then glue it together after.

Print the base separate from the troll. When you print the troll, duplicate it in S3D, double click the copy and flip it over, and drop it onto the table, then double click on, and sink both the original and the duplicate under the bed by half. Anything below the bed doesn't print - it effectively slices the model in half.

Then create your supports, it won't need a raft. :D
Last edited by Jules on Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Neep
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Re: So... what causes this

Post by Neep » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:55 am

Thank you very much! Jules, I tried your settings (50C bed, 205 extruder) with a raft and supports and actually that was enough to print this thing successfully! I didn't even need to split it in half! I did however figure out that the left hand side of my bed is not leveled well so I moved the print to the right hand side... worked much better... now I need to relevel the left hand side of the bed...

Anyway, thank you very much for your help! Now I wonder why the Makergear main page recommends such a high temp (220)... http://www.makergear.com/pages/m2-assembled

Thanks again!!!

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Neep
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Re: So... what causes this

Post by Neep » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:00 am

Oh and for what its worth, I am just printing straight to the Kapton the new M2's come with preapplied... no glue stick or hairspray or other such things... still worked great!

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willnewton
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Re: So... what causes this

Post by willnewton » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:18 pm

Not an easy print at that size and you would possibly break it to pieces getting out of the supports.

Two things that might help.

First, consider a head down orientation. Check out this astronaut print for an example. http://www.thingiverse.com/make:62690. Way less support needed, although you may need a brim or raft to create a solid attachment to the bed.

Second, consider printing two figures at a time. Long, small, spindly bits, such as those arms and legs will print much better if there is a chance for the layer to cool.

It not impossible, just might take a couple of tries to figure it out.
I'm finally back to where I started two days ago!

A thread with some stuff in it I update every once in a while. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9
See some of my stuff http://www.thingiverse.com/willnewton/about

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Neep
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Re: So... what causes this

Post by Neep » Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:51 am

Jules wrote:Couple of possibilities that i can see......

You didn't use adhesive and your print either warped up causing the nozzle to hit it, (it's kind of hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like you've got PLA stuck to the outside of it), or your supports got knocked over, and you weren't watching, and the nozzle just kept printing over thin air for a while. (Bird's nest.)

Try using some adhesive (hairspray or gluestick), take the plate temp down to 50°C and the extruder temp down to 205°C. The hotter you print PLA, the slower it cools, and it needs to cool immediately after it exits the nozzle, or it causes warping problems. (Pretty sure the troll or the base warped up and hit the nozzle, causing the bird's nest.)
Thanks again for all your help!

Ok, so I spoke too soon. I got that troll to work but then had problems printing small model barrels (I think one or two came off during printing over night).

So I guess I need better sticking to the plate. Can I or should I use hairspray on the polyimide tape? The new M2s ship with the PI tape already on the glass.
Is hairspraying the Kapton going to be a problem?

And is this the kind of hairspray you all recommend?
http://www.amazon.com/Aqua-Net-Unscente ... ds=aquanet

Should I just skip that and get a zebra plate? I'm willing to pay the 45 bucks if I don't wake up to overnight prints looking like spaghetti :)

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Jules
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Re: So... what causes this

Post by Jules » Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:07 am

Neep wrote: Ok, so I spoke too soon. I got that troll to work but then had problems printing small model barrels (I think one or two came off during printing over night).

So I guess I need better sticking to the plate. Can I or should I use hairspray on the polyimide tape? The new M2s ship with the PI tape already on the glass.
Is hairspraying the Kapton going to be a problem?

And is this the kind of hairspray you all recommend?
http://www.amazon.com/Aqua-Net-Unscente ... ds=aquanet

Should I just skip that and get a zebra plate? I'm willing to pay the 45 bucks if I don't wake up to overnight prints looking like spaghetti :)
Not yet, the hairspray should be fine, and a lot cheaper than a zebra. ;) Spray directly on the tape until it puddles, then let it dry completely. That makes a good base coat that you leave on and just give a refresher spritz or two between prints.

You'll probably need to freeze the prints off the plate to remove them afterwards, but it really does a great job with holding. :D

ErikAkia
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Re: So... what causes this

Post by ErikAkia » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:52 am

This is the hairspray I use. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HA8 ... ge_o08_s00 I bought some local the first time but then I ran out and could not find it anywhere. I went through 5 other brands and they either stunk to high heaven or did not work like I was used to so I finally bought a case on amazon. It will be a while before I run out again. :D

LonV
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Re: So... what causes this

Post by LonV » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:02 am

+1 for Aquanet. Get your 80's feathered hair ready!

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