First Rhino file - Critiques invited if you've got the time

Have questions or comments about Simplify3D, Slic3r, Cura, Reptier, etc? Or wondering about which CAD software to use...discuss it here...
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Jules
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Re: First Rhino file - Critiques invited if you've got the t

Post by Jules » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:00 pm

Thanks Ed....wasn't thinking about the building process yet but I can see where re-designing that into pieces would print a lot better. Excellent suggestions!

Can I pick your brain a bit further?

I did design a .2mm difference in size between the size of the pegs and the size of the holes, to allow for slight variances in printing, and maybe to allow for some glue to go in there. How accurately can these things be printed? Is that not enough variance? Are pegs just generally not a good idea?

How high can you make a walled print? I tried to keep that one at about 4 inches off the bed, plus or minus, but is there more chance of warping or splitting with a 4mm thick wall at greater heights?

I really like the idea of the blind alignment holes, and I'm going to rework it by completely removing the front from the sides and using those to attach the sides to the back and front. How strong is the bond using glue? Do you think the fins will print okay as they are or should I remove those as well?

Thanks so much for sharing your expertise! :D

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Jules
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Re: First Rhino file - Critiques invited if you've got the t

Post by Jules » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:06 pm

And Jim....that bomb is "da bomb"! :lol:
Last edited by Jules on Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jimc
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Re: First Rhino file - Critiques invited if you've got the t

Post by jimc » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:10 pm

As a general rule for fitting parts together. .005" all the way around is a tight fit. .007" is just snug or a perfect fit. .010" is a loose fit without slop. Of course all this depends on how your print settings are tuned

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Jules
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Re: First Rhino file - Critiques invited if you've got the t

Post by Jules » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:14 pm

Okay this is valuable information and it's going into my copious Notes file.....thank you! :)
. .005" all the way around is a tight fit. .007" is just snug or a perfect fit. .010" is a loose fit without slop

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ednisley
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Re: First Rhino file - Critiques invited if you've got the t

Post by ednisley » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:07 pm

Jules wrote: How accurately can these things be printed?
Printing the pin-and-hole test piece I used will give you an idea:
http://softsolder.com/2013/04/21/makerg ... t-objects/

In round numbers, a feature will be within ±0.2 mm of its nominal XY dimension. For large features, that's no big deal, but for a 2 mm pin that should fit in a 2 mm hole, it's a problem.

You can print with slightly better tolerances by paying vastly more attention to detail. However, the process boils down to extruding a string of molten goo, so it's not particularly precise.
Are pegs just generally not a good idea?
A vertical peg has very little strength in the XY plane, because there's not much surface area for bonding. Particularly if it has a hole down the middle, the poor thing will just shear off. Better to use a filament snippet or a metal pin; if you need more strength than that, maybe 3D printed plastic is the wrong material for other reasons.
How high can you make a walled print?
About 5 mm less than you want... [grin]

Very tall, very thin walls require careful attention, because there's not much mechanical strength holding them against the force of the plastic shrinking as it cools: the edges tend to warp upward and snag the nozzle. While you can make it work, minimizing the problem lets you worry about other issues.
How strong is the bond using glue?
Ideally, it'll be as strong as the base plastic. I usually sand the mating parts to flatten out minor imperfections and scuff the surfaces, then glue 'em together and it works fine.
Do you think the fins will print okay as they are
They seem chunky enough to work well, but it's hard to say without a few experiments... which is what this is all about, anyway.
your expertise!
Let's just say that I've made far more mistakes than you, but you'll catch up quickly![grin]

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Jules
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Re: First Rhino file - Critiques invited if you've got the t

Post by Jules » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:17 pm

Chuckle! Fantastic! And all excellent points I had not thought of (or discovered through tedious trial and error) yet.

I'm going to save your pin file to try when the printer comes - and go rework a file or two. :D

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Re: First Rhino file - Critiques invited if you've got the t

Post by jsc » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:32 pm

Just to add some comments to Ed and Jim's comments:

In metric, I've found 0.1mm clearance to be a force fit, 0.2mm to be a snug fit, and more for loose. Lines up very closely with Jim's Imperial numbers.

I've found this chart invaluable when working with SAE screws. Take the Plastics drill size for tap drills and round it up a tad, and you can self tap most machine screws (although using a tap would be preferable). Also useful for the clearance hole dimensions.

If you want to attach something once, machine screws in plastic should be fine. If you want something that disassembles and reassembles, designing in a captured nut is preferable. I've found that tables of nuts are never what my nuts measure, so I just caliper the flats and thickness. You can also get threaded brass inserts that you can heat stake with a soldering iron; I have not messed with those.

For something a little more artisanal, check this out. The world of traditional wood joinery awaits.

Adhesives: the strongest for PLA to PLA I've found so far are Weld-On IPS #4 (hat tip to Jim and Ed), which welds the plastic from both parts together. You will want a syringe or needle bottle to apply it, and it's water thin. Almost as good is Bob Smith Industries Insta-Cure+ cyanoacrylate, with maybe a splash of their Insta-Set accelerator on the mating surface for large surfaces. You can delaminate the layers before that bond will give. For anything that will need shear strength or requires gap fill, Loctite two part epoxy (heavy duty 5 minute in separate bottles) is pretty good. Finally, E3000, a craft glue, works well to bond printed parts to all manner of other things, including fabrics, and is shock resistant. It smells bad and has a 24 hour cure time, which limits its utility for me.

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insta
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Re: First Rhino file - Critiques invited if you've got the t

Post by insta » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:33 pm

I think I need to have a talk with Bob Smith Industries about name licensing :lol:
Custom 3D printing for you or your business -- quote [at] pingring.org

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Jules
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Re: First Rhino file - Critiques invited if you've got the t

Post by Jules » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:31 pm

Thanks jsc, I've got that chart printed out (and saved) for reference. Reminds me of the old heavy binders full of printed tables we used to carry around with us everywhere, BC. (Before computers.) Back in the dark ages. :lol:

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