There's nothing wrong with the v3 hotend. It's worked well for years, "years" being the operative word.
I think it has more to do with the v4 not being a launched product, and is still in beta.
Starting with the V4 hot end
Re: Starting with the V4 hot end
Custom 3D printing for you or your business -- quote [at] pingring.org
Re: Starting with the V4 hot end
You said that this was the first printer for you and your son. It's probably a better idea for you to go with something that has several years of success behind it than a few months of testing, no matter how enthusiastic some of us get about the new nozzle design.
Until you learn how to correctly dial in your settings, and learn how to manipulate the different filaments, you are going to see a lot of things happen that you might not expect. The filaments glob up, parts warp and hit the nozzle, they sometimes don't adhere to the bed and shift around, and other times they spread too thin, they crack when they cool, they jam and strip out in the extruder. Then once you finally figure out exactly how to handle a particular filament, you try a different one, and the whole thing changes. Sounds like a lot of hassle, but it's all part of the process, and it's better with this printer than any other, since there are fewer problems with leveling and the prints are very consistent. Until you know what causes it and can correct for it, you're better off using something that has a very proven success rate with those kind of problems, and I put my V3B through every one of those conditions many times over, and it worked like a champ, until I changed it out. But I waited a couple of months to change it out, (driving insta crazy in the process, which was fun
), until I felt comfortable that I knew what i was doing with the V3B, because I knew that moving to a nozzle that was still being tested was a gamble.
And that might be one of the reasons for the delay in the release of the V4. One of the things that I liked best about this company when I did the research on my purchase was they thoroughly test improvements before handing them off to beginners. Can't complain about that, it saves a ton of aggravation in the long run, and I've worked with companies that didn't and came to regret it bitterly.
Until you learn how to correctly dial in your settings, and learn how to manipulate the different filaments, you are going to see a lot of things happen that you might not expect. The filaments glob up, parts warp and hit the nozzle, they sometimes don't adhere to the bed and shift around, and other times they spread too thin, they crack when they cool, they jam and strip out in the extruder. Then once you finally figure out exactly how to handle a particular filament, you try a different one, and the whole thing changes. Sounds like a lot of hassle, but it's all part of the process, and it's better with this printer than any other, since there are fewer problems with leveling and the prints are very consistent. Until you know what causes it and can correct for it, you're better off using something that has a very proven success rate with those kind of problems, and I put my V3B through every one of those conditions many times over, and it worked like a champ, until I changed it out. But I waited a couple of months to change it out, (driving insta crazy in the process, which was fun
), until I felt comfortable that I knew what i was doing with the V3B, because I knew that moving to a nozzle that was still being tested was a gamble.And that might be one of the reasons for the delay in the release of the V4. One of the things that I liked best about this company when I did the research on my purchase was they thoroughly test improvements before handing them off to beginners. Can't complain about that, it saves a ton of aggravation in the long run, and I've worked with companies that didn't and came to regret it bitterly.
Re: Starting with the V4 hot end
One of the most difficult problems that face small companies is success.
Although, I would really like to get the V4, I also applaud Makergear for not rushing it out.
I don't know how many times Rick has come to the forum asking for input into the development of the M2 and it's follow on upgrades, but in terms of what most companies do it is a staggering number. There seems to be almost a family type relationship between the company and M2 owners. That's hard to find these days and you sure won't get it from a Chinese company.
If I had around 720 people asking me questions (the number of people on this forum). It might take a little while to get around to each one (oh, and take a little time to run a company).
My next 3D printer will be from Makergear.
Larry
Although, I would really like to get the V4, I also applaud Makergear for not rushing it out.
I don't know how many times Rick has come to the forum asking for input into the development of the M2 and it's follow on upgrades, but in terms of what most companies do it is a staggering number. There seems to be almost a family type relationship between the company and M2 owners. That's hard to find these days and you sure won't get it from a Chinese company.
If I had around 720 people asking me questions (the number of people on this forum). It might take a little while to get around to each one (oh, and take a little time to run a company).
My next 3D printer will be from Makergear.
Larry
Re: Starting with the V4 hot end
At the end of the day an spare hotend is an extra that most everybody can agree one should purchase with a new printer no matter the brand you buy. The V4 upgrade is not much more in cost than a spare v3b . I would just order it with the printer . Makergear as far as support goes has always been top notch. No other company would send you free parts because of my own bone headed stupidity. A good friend of mine is a dealer for another brand printer and has gone through 7 smart extruders in less than six months. I have had my V4 since it came out...not sure if that was 6 months ago or not. But I have not had one problem with it that was not my fault. At the end of the day the choice is yours my friend , but I know from experience that you can not go wrong with an M2 . 
Re: Starting with the V4 hot end
Also, if for some reason you don't like it, insta will probably buy it. 
Re: Starting with the V4 hot end
lem wrote:Also, if for some reason you don't like it, insta will probably buy it.
(PS: that's another pretty puppy Larry!)
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CCVirginia
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:31 pm
Re: Starting with the V4 hot end
Thanks for all the great feedback!
Update: My order is on hold pending the V4 shipping or finding out that it will not be soon. I kind of missed my window to do much this month anyway, due to travel.
As for starting with the V3, that was my original intent. However I found out that you could not swap between them so it would go to waist and I would not want to start collecting V3 "spares". When it became apparent from this forum that the V4 had been out for some time and seemed "debugged", I thought it would be best to start with the latest. Didn't think it would result a big issue or such a thread! So, my hope is to hear more from Makergear in a few weeks.
Update: My order is on hold pending the V4 shipping or finding out that it will not be soon. I kind of missed my window to do much this month anyway, due to travel.
As for starting with the V3, that was my original intent. However I found out that you could not swap between them so it would go to waist and I would not want to start collecting V3 "spares". When it became apparent from this forum that the V4 had been out for some time and seemed "debugged", I thought it would be best to start with the latest. Didn't think it would result a big issue or such a thread! So, my hope is to hear more from Makergear in a few weeks.
Re: Starting with the V4 hot end
Just to echo what others have said - the v3b is *very* well proven for PLA and ABS, and there is literally *years* of experience on this forum with how to fix issues. Many on here can look at a blurry phone photo of some incorrect part and quickly/correctly diagnose the profile issues.
The v4 really only makes more exotic materials possible, like Ninjaflex (which sucks to print on v3b), carbon fiber (high temp requirements) and others, but none of those materials should be considered entry-level materials. Until you've gone thru a few reels of both ABS/PLA I wouldn't try out anything more exotic.
As for collecting "spares" you can have makergear part you out the necessary parts to make a full v4 instead of an upgrade, so it's easier to swap. That said, I have had my v3b since November of last year and have had (knock on wood) no clogging issues. I figure the first time it clogs, I'll take the opportunity to swap over to the v4 upgrade I pre-ordered, which I haven't bothered doing because all my projects have been ABS/PLA based, and like I said, the v3b works great with them.
The v4 really only makes more exotic materials possible, like Ninjaflex (which sucks to print on v3b), carbon fiber (high temp requirements) and others, but none of those materials should be considered entry-level materials. Until you've gone thru a few reels of both ABS/PLA I wouldn't try out anything more exotic.
As for collecting "spares" you can have makergear part you out the necessary parts to make a full v4 instead of an upgrade, so it's easier to swap. That said, I have had my v3b since November of last year and have had (knock on wood) no clogging issues. I figure the first time it clogs, I'll take the opportunity to swap over to the v4 upgrade I pre-ordered, which I haven't bothered doing because all my projects have been ABS/PLA based, and like I said, the v3b works great with them.
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CCVirginia
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:31 pm
Re: Starting with the V4 hot end
Update: Received my V4-M2 Last night !
I appreciate all the comments. Since I was away much of June I decided to wait.
I was able to print out my first part and I think it looks very good for a first print!!!
The setup is a M2 with the 0.35 V4 hot end and Simplify3d slicer.
I had the following minor issues:
* The setup video said the fans would come on when first plugged in, they didn't and I was concerned something was wrong but this turned out to be a change.
* The default in Simplify3d was setup for a 0.40 hot end - when I changed it to 0.30 the print worked better. I also set the filament diameter.
* I leveled the bed (I think it may have been level, but not at the right Z - probably safe for shipping)
Perhaps I should be using a new Simplify3d profile?
Other than that - all default settings worked well. We are off...
I appreciate all the comments. Since I was away much of June I decided to wait.
I was able to print out my first part and I think it looks very good for a first print!!!
The setup is a M2 with the 0.35 V4 hot end and Simplify3d slicer.
I had the following minor issues:
* The setup video said the fans would come on when first plugged in, they didn't and I was concerned something was wrong but this turned out to be a change.
* The default in Simplify3d was setup for a 0.40 hot end - when I changed it to 0.30 the print worked better. I also set the filament diameter.
* I leveled the bed (I think it may have been level, but not at the right Z - probably safe for shipping)
Perhaps I should be using a new Simplify3d profile?
Other than that - all default settings worked well. We are off...
Re: Starting with the V4 hot end
Your nozzle is a 0.35, not a 0.30, FYI 
Custom 3D printing for you or your business -- quote [at] pingring.org