Really Getting Started - Purchase Decision

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outlaw704
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Location: Austin, Texas

Really Getting Started - Purchase Decision

Post by outlaw704 » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:29 pm

Hello All,

I have ZERO experience with 3D printing, but am spending my time on due diligence in order to make an informed purchase decision. As a hobbyist, I am hoping to make parts for UAVs (quadcopters, etc.), gimbals and other parts for more traditional videography and photography. I do not want a kit - I'd rather start with a printer built by experts.

I am a PC user - somewhat savvy - but some of the software issues seem intimidating at this point.

So far, I've narrowed down to MakerGear M2 or FlashForge Dreamer which will be released next month. I understand there is no experience on the Dreamer yet, but the reviews for the FF Creator X (as well as the M2) seem very positive. I am also considering the "community" of users and am very impressed with the helpfulness and understanding of the contributing members of the former Google Group and this new forum.

I expect there are other lurkers out there looking for the same information I am. I can find a bunch of "pros" for the M2, but I'd like to hear about the "cons" too; especially from people that started out in 3D printing with the M2. Especially what their getting started experiences were. What would you do different now? What else should I be considering? Is there an M3 or next generation M2 about to come out??

Thanks in advance for your advice...

jsc
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Re: Really Getting Started - Purchase Decision

Post by jsc » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:52 pm

You're not going to find a lot of bad mouthing the M2 in this forum, because most of us seem pretty pleased with the quality of the product. Here is a recent Google Groups thread along the same lines, new user looking for comments from current owners: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... YpWfuI3ux0 (Keith ended up getting an M2).

Since you're interested in quadcopters, here's a thread from Brendan who has been doing some great work with an M2 designing quad/hexacopters https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... nKL_14FgbM

Here are some "cons" from my perspective, which are really about trade offs; you can always spend more money, but what do you get for it?

No dual extruders (yet!) But see https://00571043170453673879.googlegrou ... mKYOf1qlnI for the v4 extruder "coming soon".

No heated enclosure, but due to patents only MakerBot/Stratasys can offer those (or you will end up getting sued like Ultimaker). As a user, you can create your own enclosure, either the hard way (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... j9kOsaedF0) or the easy way (read down in that thread for the Ikea solution).

Getting everything dialed in to your liking is not as simple as in more proprietary systems, where everything comes set up ready to go. Conversely, you end up having a lot more flexibility to choose your own trade offs (speed vs quality) than in those systems.

Enough cons, let's get to some pros:

Solid steel frame, proven extruder, linear motion rails, large timing belts, heated bed, a (relatively) small but by and large happy community of users. Large build volume. A high quality to price ratio. There are better printers, and there are cheaper printers, but there are no cheaper better printers.
Last edited by jsc on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Toby
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:44 pm

Re: Really Getting Started - Purchase Decision

Post by Toby » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:56 pm

I bought a pre-built M2 about 2 1/2 months ago. I also had no hands on experience with 3D printing but was reasonably tech savvy and educated as to how these things worked. The thing that was most important to me was to buy something that would have me up and running quickly without hassles. I didn't mind a learning curve in terms of how to get better and better prints, I just didn't want to be stuck in a jungle of technicalities trying to get any print at all.

That's exactly what I got with the M2. It printed out of the box and has never not print in the time I've owned it- and nowadays I'm printing several times a day on average. There is a learning curve in terms of how the settings work and what you have to do in terms of calibrating to get good prints. But it's been a fun process for me since I'm always getting the positive feedback of printing successfully. Also, this group has been invaluable.

In terms of software, if you go with Simplify 3D you will not have any problems on that end. No messing with arcane configuration files or anything like that. It's very simple to use and as complete as you need. Also, the support for S3D here is great (better than on the Simplify3D board imo).

The only criticism I have of the pre-built M2 is the documentation. Without any experience with 3D printing, I don't think the documentation by itself will be enough to get you printing with confidence. You'll probably have to ask some questions. I had some initial frustration getting oriented to the different parts of the printer and how to interact with them. E.g., I knew theoretically what a z-stop was but I'd never seen one in the wild, so to speak. The good news is you'll get all the help you need from this board and Makergear support. They got me over the hump and I quickly learned my way around.

Since then I really can't think of any cons at all. (Unless having a hobby that is such a blast it's liable to turn your life upside down is a negative!)

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Dave K
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Re: Really Getting Started - Purchase Decision

Post by Dave K » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:13 am

outlaw704 wrote:Hello All,
[snip]
I expect there are other lurkers out there looking for the same information I am. I can find a bunch of "pros" for the M2, but I'd like to hear about the "cons" too; especially from people that started out in 3D printing with the M2. Especially what their getting started experiences were. What would you do different now? What else should I be considering? Is there an M3 or next generation M2 about to come out??

Thanks in advance for your advice...
I don't know if there is an M3 slated for anytime soon, but MG makes continual improvements to their printers, so the "next generation M2" is likely to be whatever upgrades they make available that you'd like to incorporate. The V4 hot end, maybe the dual extrusion version, is on my short list. My bet is that any next gen M2 developments are going to be backwards compatible with the existing M2 printers.

As far as negatives go, the biggest one I can think of is a marketing issue that other companies fall into more than MakerGear. "Prints great right out of the box". That's true with a canned print that has already been optimized for that particular printer. But once you start downloading third party objects to print, or designing your own, getting a good print is no longer "right out of the box". For a lot of us, that's OK. It's part of the challenge and the fun (and the frustration at times). Before I bought my printer, I read enough to realize the technology is still young and tweaking is required.

I haven't seen it coming from MG's marketing, but I've read claims from other MakerXxx printers where I think, wow, that may not be a lie exactly, but it really misrepresents how much thought, effort, and trial and error is required to print successfully beyond the canned samples. I wonder how many people will buy a 3D printer thinking it will print anything thrown at it, like their HP Officejet, only to become disillusioned when they find out the technology isn't at the inkjet printer level yet.

KeithA
Posts: 76
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Re: Really Getting Started - Purchase Decision

Post by KeithA » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:30 am

I am the Keith referenced in one of the posts above. I can tell you I was much in the same spot as you very recently. After extensive research reading everything I could find I decided on the M2 and am happy I did. It seems extremely well built compared to others I have seen. I was able to print the demo files successfully within an hour of opening the box. The quality of the prints were better than I expected. I expect to be able to improve them after learning more about the settings and machine itself. One thing I can tell you is under rated in all of the reading I did around the internet was the value of the community. I posted in various forums trying to gain knowledge. I got no replies in some of them a few in others but nothing compared to the great help I received in Makergears. The people here go out of there way to help you something that is very important for someone new to 3d Printers. You won't regret it if you go with them and I advise you do!

Thanks

outlaw704
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:58 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Really Getting Started - Purchase Decision

Post by outlaw704 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:45 am

To those that have posted - jsc, Toby and Dave K - THANK YOU!! - I appreciate your insights and ideas. Thanks for the links back to the google group (I thought I had reviewed thoroughly, but had not seen those you posted), they were very helpful and informative.
KeithA wrote: One thing I can tell you is under rated in all of the reading I did around the internet was the value of the community.
KeithA - I agree wholeheartedly. Your thread in the Google Group is excellent. I have not found a Google Group/Forum quite like these members. It is really a different, positive, cooperative community. And it is probably the feedback and positive interaction of this unique group of Makers that is going to get me to pull the trigger on the M2.

Anyone else with 3D printer purchase advice, pro or con, I'd love to hear it!

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jimc
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Re: Really Getting Started - Purchase Decision

Post by jimc » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:13 am

well i have had mine for about 9mos now. its a fantastic machine and as you can see we have a good group here and the support from makergear is outstanding. i cant say enough good things about rick, karen and josh. it is a mechanical device and in the 9mos i have had a couple very small items that needed replacing which took no more than a quick email and they were on their way the very next day, no questions and no charge. the machine is engineered very well and the quality of the components are top notch. the thing i think is great is they have managed to make a prosumer printer while keeping the basics of the machine open source so you can still tweak, modify and do what you want with it without being locked in. way down the road for instance long after your warranty would run out, the controller board, steppers, bearings and everything else on the machine are easily and cheaply replaceable with common components. a rambo board for instance runs $180. now try to goto makerbot and see what they gouge you for a board for their machine....i bet its atleast 4 times that and you will have to buy it from them only. even all the stl's for the plastic components on the m2 have been made available by makergear so you can simply print spares. when i was deciding on a printer i just loved the quality of the construction on the machine and the support reviews. i actually remember ending up searching the internet to find something bad and i really had a hard time. i have not regretted the purchase....ever!

outlaw704
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Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:58 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Really Getting Started - Purchase Decision

Post by outlaw704 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:02 pm

Trigger pulled! Here we go.

Ready, Fire, Aim... :shock:

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Dave K
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Re: Really Getting Started - Purchase Decision

Post by Dave K » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:07 pm

outlaw704 wrote:Trigger pulled! Here we go.

Ready, Fire, Aim... :shock:
You won't regret the choice! You're not just buying the printer, you're buying a great support system with it, at MG and in these forums.

Toby
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:44 pm

Re: Really Getting Started - Purchase Decision

Post by Toby » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:21 pm

Congrats! I think you made a good choice.

In the words of Dale (and my vote for the unofficial motto of the M2): Welcome to the fun!

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