Why does S3D print the tiniest paths first? Always lifts

[swbluto]

I also found that sometimes tiny paths are hidden by "quick travels" (That don't z-hop.). I think this 'quick travel' is also what's causing scratches in my top layer - it should be z-hopping like all my other z-hops, but it just does a quick "zip", tearing up the top. Thinking I might be forcing the g-code to z-hop on the top layers.

[swbluto]

Just wanted to add I ended up removing the gap fill section on the bottom layer, due to the "pocking" all that travel does and the minimal filament extruded (I think the spreading of the bottom layer covers whatever areas "gap fill" intends to fill). The final product turns out perfectly fine, as my last 120 prints over the last 2 days have shown.

[swbluto]

Just wanted to let you know, I've now filtered out paths that are too short (less than 5mm; still experimenting with the optimum length filter). I noticed, in my prints, these were the tiny paths that "touched and go" which tended to lift my ABS traces tending to cause ruin while themselves didn't really deposit any filament. Just useless Print ruining movements that the S3D slicer thought was /so/ wise to do on the ever-sensitive bottom layer.

I've also found that bottom layer infill should be around 15mm/s for best results, while the bottom layer perimeters benefit from 7mm/s or less, especially prints with sharp corners. It seems that S3D just lumps them all into the same "Bottom layer speed" category, so I'm going to add this to my gcode optimizer program. Also, I've found that keeping the nozzle clean helps with minimizing lifting traces. And, I found that vigorously washing the bed is necessary for optimum ABS adhesion. ABS seems like it can easily tell an effort that was half-assed.

It would be nice to set perimeters at a lower height (To encourage adhesion and discourage lifting) on the bottom layer, while bottom layer infill was set a higher height (to minimize buildup of excess that tends to lift traces and ruin prints), instead of constantly trying to find the optimum height from print to print.

It seems like, in my experience, the bottom layer must be treated with far more specialized extra care than what common Slic3rs allow when it comes to ABS filament. PLA doesn't really seem to experience excess buildup / lifting traces issues due to its stickiness. (Doesn't seem to experience buildup, either, probably due to the fact it doesn't stick nearly as well to itself as ABS does which is why it delaminates so easily.)

[ednisley]

filtered out paths that are too short (less than 5mm

the bottom layer perimeters benefit from 7mm/s or less, especially prints with sharp corners

When a 5 mm thread doesn't stick to the build platform at 7 mm/s, the problem has absolutely nothing to do with the slicer. My old Thing-O-Matic laid the first layer of ABS down on Kapton tape at 20 mm/s with no problems: everything stuck just fine.

The bottom layer does require particular care, but removing tiny segments isn't part of the solution.

tiny paths that "touched and go" ... didn't really deposit any filament

That's a retraction problem, combined with poor adhesion. The M2 extruder can deposit dots with precision:
http://softsolder.com/2015/04/07/lurid- ... me-images/



Something is amiss with your setup.

I'd start debugging from the first layer height and platform alignment, repeat the extruder calibration, and then look at whatever adhesive you're using / not using, and all the other fine tuning that we've covered in many, many discussions here. Going through Jules' startup checklist would ensure you haven't skipped anything.

[swbluto]

Something is amiss with your setup.

Indeed, something is afoot. I'm printing ABS on bare glass. I know, I know, I could print out ABS on kapton tape with a touch of ABS slurry but F THAT SHIT. Kapton tape likes to develop bubbles on heated beds, I've noticed, imprinting on the surface of your otherwise (nearly) perfect glassy mirror finish. And, ABS slurry imparts an ugly surface finish akin to a tarnish.

But, yes, ABS on bare glass requires particular care on detailed bottom layers and I'm bound and determined to master it at all odds.

Btw, the bottom layers on my two most recent prints came out nearly ideal. Almost no trace lifting, chyeah.

Now I need to figure out why my mass stlGcodeX3G renderer isn't working. Something makes me think it needs pauses.

[ednisley]

I'm bound and determined to master it at all odds

If you continue not doing the thing(s) that solve the problem, you're wasting everybody's time. Blaming everything else you touch, from crappy slicers to lousy hardware design, ignores the large group of people around here who use exactly those tools to get gorgeous results, day in and day out, with exactly zero drama.

Those folks (the ones with sticky posts) freely share their techniques, so, while 3D printing certainly isn't an exact science, the solutions aren't all that hard to find.

but F THAT SHIT

I'm outta here.

[Jules]

Kapton tape likes to develop bubbles on heated beds, I've noticed, imprinting on the surface of your otherwise (nearly) perfect glassy mirror finish. And, ABS slurry imparts an ugly surface finish akin to a tarnish.

But, yes, ABS on bare glass requires particular care on detailed bottom layers and I'm bound and determined to master it at all odds.

Had you given any thought to a PEI surface? Mirror finish, holds like a "son-of-a-b" until it cools, no adhesive, works with ABS at lower temps than bare glass, so you don't wait as long for the heatup, and you won't have to jump through so many hoops trying to get perfect finishes on your bottom layer. Jdacal posted a picture of the mirror-like finish he got with the smooth side on a PEI sheet. It's pretty amazing.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2296&start=40

Picture is on the 5th page.

[swbluto]

but F THAT SHIT

I'm outta here.

Lol, scared you off with dramaticism. Typical aspie. *gentle ribbing*

It's true, I might be wasting *your* time, but this thread isn't for you: It's for everyone. In particular, anyone who wants to emulate my techniques and resulting undeniable success. Ideally, that'd be people who could implement it like, uhhh, programmers.

(I.e., whoever develops S3D.)

[insta]

ay whats going on in here

y'all best be cooling down a bit.

[swbluto]

I'm bound and determined to master it at all odds

If you continue not doing the thing(s) that solve the problem, you're wasting everybody's time. Blaming everything else you touch, from crappy slicers to lousy hardware design, ignores the large group of people around here who use exactly those tools to get gorgeous results, day in and day out, with exactly zero drama.

Btw, I do exactly what everybody else does and get the same exact gorgeous results, except with PLA. ABS on bare glass is a whole another genre of funambulism.