esun petg
Re: esun petg
If the avoid crossing outline factor does what it shows in the print preview it should remove all the fine hairs. For the print shown (scaled by 1.5) it only adds 1 minute to the build time. The fine hairs isn't what drove me into looking into this; instead I was watching it print and was annoyed that it kept jumping around, seemed to introduce a lot more potential for problems. I'll definitely be giving it a try soon. A heat gun does sound like a great idea to get rid of them; although may be a little difficult on large, complex prints to get internal ones without melting the exterior (however I don't do such prints at the moment so it's a non-factor for me).
Re: esun petg
Short story:
"Avoid Crossing Outline" doesn't help with the PETG strings.
Long story:
I would avoid using "avoid crossing outline"; the reduction of strings is minimal, the amount of movement during printing is increased and the outer layers seem to end up worse off (noticeably less sharp imo). I thought S3D was going to change the path to be more of a continuous extrusion but instead it followed the same convoluted pattern as before but as it went from one area to another it took a path that didn't cross an outline. Fine threads were still able to stretch across and follow a straight path through outlines, thus the result being nearly the same regarding fine threads. Maybe it has its uses but will have to think of what that is.
Off topic:
Is there a way to have S3D print each layer using a continouos path (when possible)? I tried increasing the amount of perimeter shells so the print would be nothing but shells but frustratingly enough S3D jumped all around the area (i.e. for the gear teeth it did 1 loop in each tooth until it came back around and then started the next loop in each tooth, each time crossing the gap from tooth to tooth).
"Avoid Crossing Outline" doesn't help with the PETG strings.
Long story:
I would avoid using "avoid crossing outline"; the reduction of strings is minimal, the amount of movement during printing is increased and the outer layers seem to end up worse off (noticeably less sharp imo). I thought S3D was going to change the path to be more of a continuous extrusion but instead it followed the same convoluted pattern as before but as it went from one area to another it took a path that didn't cross an outline. Fine threads were still able to stretch across and follow a straight path through outlines, thus the result being nearly the same regarding fine threads. Maybe it has its uses but will have to think of what that is.
Off topic:
Is there a way to have S3D print each layer using a continouos path (when possible)? I tried increasing the amount of perimeter shells so the print would be nothing but shells but frustratingly enough S3D jumped all around the area (i.e. for the gear teeth it did 1 loop in each tooth until it came back around and then started the next loop in each tooth, each time crossing the gap from tooth to tooth).
- Avoid Crossing Outline ON
- PETG_ac_strings_sm.jpg (444.43 KiB) Viewed 11812 times
- A.C.O. OFF
- PETG_strings_sm.jpg (352.71 KiB) Viewed 11812 times
Re: esun petg
If you choose optomize start points, thats as efficient of movements with the leasts hops that its going to get. You cant print a continuous extrusion on layer unless its something simple like a vase. Gears are notorious for needing a ton of jumps/retractions. Its always hard to tell with clear or lighter translucent filament but it looks like the print came out really good.
Re: esun petg
I'm no expert in topology, but I believe for a map of vertices and edges to be able to be walked without retracing your steps, it can have no more than two vertices with an odd number of edges meeting there. If there are two, one of them has to be the start point and the other has to be the stop point. I realize that statement is for mathematical maps with infinitely small points and infinitely thin edges, and that the gear shown with a large number of three-edged vertices will really have SIX edges (two outer perimeters, one incoming and one outgoing along each "edge" perhaps), but still, there has to be some point, on some of these prints, where you can't do it all in one threadline for the layer. (Trivially true that you have to cross for layers with disconnected shapes, of course...)
Sorry. Just musing on the keyboard. Seriously, though, the preview shown with the non-crossing factor of 100 will clean up a lot of my prints pretty nicely when printing with PETg...
Sorry. Just musing on the keyboard. Seriously, though, the preview shown with the non-crossing factor of 100 will clean up a lot of my prints pretty nicely when printing with PETg...
Re: esun petg
I was worried about melting when I first tried the flame trick, but even a very quick pass with a flame will immediately shrink any hairs to nothing without heating the part appreciably.
Re: esun petg
Dale Reed:
The non-crossing factor of 100 on the gear part only reduced fine threads by 25-50%, but the threads that it produced seemed to be a bit thicker and there was a reduction in perimeter outline quality (i.e. look at the outer edges of each picture I posted and you can see that the one with avoid crossing outline is noticeably bumpier. Although that's not to say that for the right model and with the right settings that avoid crossing outlines won't have it's uses; maybe a lower hot end temp combined with avoid crossing outline could help. I don't have any experience with topology; I just know that the gear print can be done with less jumping so it would be nice if S3D had a radio button that could be selected to use a different method of creating a layer that was more continuous (then we could simply preview with it on and off and decide if we were willing to put up with the extra time required to print that way).
jsc:
I brought out the micro torch and it cleaned up all the fine hairs easily. It leaves little blobs but they're less noticeable than the hairs.
jimc:
Yea I had optimize start points on. I am very happy with the quality of the prints; just trying to expand my knowledge about how to adjust things to reduce/alleviate common issues. There is a minor but noticeable reduction in outer layer quality on the print with avoid crossing outline on; not sure why but maybe having avoid crossing outline on increases the chances of small buildups on the nozzle which end up becoming micro blobs throughout the print.
The non-crossing factor of 100 on the gear part only reduced fine threads by 25-50%, but the threads that it produced seemed to be a bit thicker and there was a reduction in perimeter outline quality (i.e. look at the outer edges of each picture I posted and you can see that the one with avoid crossing outline is noticeably bumpier. Although that's not to say that for the right model and with the right settings that avoid crossing outlines won't have it's uses; maybe a lower hot end temp combined with avoid crossing outline could help. I don't have any experience with topology; I just know that the gear print can be done with less jumping so it would be nice if S3D had a radio button that could be selected to use a different method of creating a layer that was more continuous (then we could simply preview with it on and off and decide if we were willing to put up with the extra time required to print that way).
jsc:
I brought out the micro torch and it cleaned up all the fine hairs easily. It leaves little blobs but they're less noticeable than the hairs.
jimc:
Yea I had optimize start points on. I am very happy with the quality of the prints; just trying to expand my knowledge about how to adjust things to reduce/alleviate common issues. There is a minor but noticeable reduction in outer layer quality on the print with avoid crossing outline on; not sure why but maybe having avoid crossing outline on increases the chances of small buildups on the nozzle which end up becoming micro blobs throughout the print.
Re: esun petg
it probably reduces perimeter quality because its running the hot end over those perimeters as it travels. sort of like the wipe feature but much longer. its probably due to the little that oozes during the voyage to the other start point. if you are going to use that setting then it probably requires its own ooze control tuning. a bunch more retraction is prob necessary. something to play with i guess. anyway the fine string will get less and less the more you drop your temp. the trick is to find that spot where you still have good layer adhesion but keep the strings to a min. with my e3d i try not to go under 245. yours may be completely different. you might want to try some layer adhesion tests. a 1mm x 1cm high bar, a few cm long. see if you can snap them along the layer lines.
-
Matt_Sharkey
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:10 pm
Re: esun petg
Well I guess it's time for me to pitch in for this thread. I got my roll of esun PETg Black last week and was able to run off a print in about an hour of fiddling. It wasn't great, but considering that I had to calibrate my new machine while also calibrating for new material, I think I did alright. I don't have a picture of my first print, it was a present for a friend anyways.
Speaking of calibrations, I'm getting into the nitty grittys. I'm using Slic3r just to complicate things
I borrowed some of Ed's settings to start with but the stringing was crazy.
Trying to calibrate for the filament, but I'm using an imperial dial caliper, and have to keep converting to metric, so that's a pain.
Two questions for you guys:
Whats the general consensus for Extrusion Multipliers on PETg? I've seen a few of you tossing around numbers like 0.8 which sounds nuts.
When calibrating, what % of error do you personally allow? I just printed off a 10mm tall thin-wall that was 10.14 (i know a solid block would be better) is 1.5% in the realm of acceptable?
Speaking of calibrations, I'm getting into the nitty grittys. I'm using Slic3r just to complicate things
I borrowed some of Ed's settings to start with but the stringing was crazy.
Trying to calibrate for the filament, but I'm using an imperial dial caliper, and have to keep converting to metric, so that's a pain.
Two questions for you guys:
Whats the general consensus for Extrusion Multipliers on PETg? I've seen a few of you tossing around numbers like 0.8 which sounds nuts.
When calibrating, what % of error do you personally allow? I just printed off a 10mm tall thin-wall that was 10.14 (i know a solid block would be better) is 1.5% in the realm of acceptable?
Re: esun petg
generally if the filament dia is set right i find my multiplier to fall right around 96-98. that can go up or down 2 or 3 points. my multiplier for all plastics seem to be about the same. only thing i run different is ninjaflex. the idea with the thin wall cube is not to measure the overall width. you measure the width of the wall. the wall should generally be right on the money. petg is less tolerant to overextrusion than other plastics. it really need to be dialed in right. the window at which you get nice prints is much smaller than abs or pla.
Re: esun petg
My current blue PETG extrusion multiplier is .89.
The wall height (height, jimc, not overall width) shows you how far off your z=0 bed height is. You are 0.14 too low; that isn't 1.5%, it is 70%, because you really only care about the height vs the first layer. If you put in -.14 in as your gcode z-offset, your next test should come out closer to 10mm.
The wall height (height, jimc, not overall width) shows you how far off your z=0 bed height is. You are 0.14 too low; that isn't 1.5%, it is 70%, because you really only care about the height vs the first layer. If you put in -.14 in as your gcode z-offset, your next test should come out closer to 10mm.