Getting PVA to stick to PLA

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Mazhdulin
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:42 pm

Getting PVA to stick to PLA

Post by Mazhdulin » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:28 pm

Hi all,

I'm trying to work with PVA, but so far it has been a disaster.
I can print with PVA as a main material and get even some decent prints with it. I can even get it to stick to the plate 100% of the times.
But I can't get it to stick to the PLA.
Im using the basic settings from makergear and have experimenten with different temps, a bit with speeds and different kind of prints.
Does anyone have settings which make the PVA stick to the PLA?

asc
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:18 pm

Re: Getting PVA to stick to PLA

Post by asc » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:47 pm

Mazhdulin wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:28 pm
Hi all,

I'm trying to work with PVA, but so far it has been a disaster.
I can print with PVA as a main material and get even some decent prints with it. I can even get it to stick to the plate 100% of the times.
But I can't get it to stick to the PLA.
Im using the basic settings from makergear and have experimenten with different temps, a bit with speeds and different kind of prints.
Does anyone have settings which make the PVA stick to the PLA?
I know this is an old post but I have the same issue. Printing with PVA is a disaster...it won't adhere to the bed properly when used as support, it oozes like crazy even at proper temps (even at recommended 185, let alone closer to 200), the stringiness makes it impossible to use as rigid support, it won't stick to PLA properly so it's been difficult to use as internal support (i.e., not from the bed). In general, it's not been good. Anyone using PVA effectively as support and have some settings to recommend?

mathisyourfriend
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:34 pm

Re: Getting PVA to stick to PLA

Post by mathisyourfriend » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:17 pm

PVA was a headache for me also. It just wouldn't consistently do what I wanted. BVOH has been much better for me but seems hard to get now. Out of stock on Makergear site and amazon.

airscapes
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:36 pm

Re: Getting PVA to stick to PLA

Post by airscapes » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:47 pm

I have a roll of Dow Evolv3d which was sent to me by mistake when I ordered some Nylon from Amazon. All I have is a single extruder M2 so if either of you want this, PM me your address and pay the shipping, and you can have it.
https://www.dow.com/en-us/industries/in ... volv3d-usm

asc
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:18 pm

Re: Getting PVA to stick to PLA

Post by asc » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:12 pm

mathisyourfriend wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:17 pm
PVA was a headache for me also. It just wouldn't consistently do what I wanted. BVOH has been much better for me but seems hard to get now. Out of stock on Makergear site and amazon.
What settings did you use for BVOH? The default MG settings in S3D? Thanks.

mathisyourfriend
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:34 pm

Re: Getting PVA to stick to PLA

Post by mathisyourfriend » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:41 pm

I printed BVOH at 218 degrees Celsuis. Ambient temp wasn't anything unusual. I printed slowly (2100mm/min I believe) and also put the BVOH in my dehydrator (120 degrees C for 2-3 hours first). I preferred to use 100% BVOH for supports (instead of 10-15 dense layers on top of PLA towers which saves $ but the BVOH doesn't perfectly stick to PLA and I err on the side of saving time over money). For all other settings I treated it like PLA.
My experience is that BVOH clogs waaaay less than PVA. It prints almost like PLA. Keep it dry and good luck.

Did you get the "Dow Evolv3d' from airscapes? I'm busy right now with a new semester and new students, etc but I'm interested in how that works.

asc
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:18 pm

Re: Getting PVA to stick to PLA

Post by asc » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:26 am

mathisyourfriend wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:41 pm
I printed BVOH at 218 degrees Celsuis. Ambient temp wasn't anything unusual. I printed slowly (2100mm/min I believe) and also put the BVOH in my dehydrator (120 degrees C for 2-3 hours first). I preferred to use 100% BVOH for supports (instead of 10-15 dense layers on top of PLA towers which saves $ but the BVOH doesn't perfectly stick to PLA and I err on the side of saving time over money). For all other settings I treated it like PLA.
My experience is that BVOH clogs waaaay less than PVA. It prints almost like PLA. Keep it dry and good luck.

Did you get the "Dow Evolv3d' from airscapes? I'm busy right now with a new semester and new students, etc but I'm interested in how that works.
Thanks, will try that. I don't have a dehydrator, just keep everything in a weather tight container with a rechargeable dehumidifier, which has worked well so far. I've had horrible issues with PVA, probably because I can't find the right settings and MakerGear doesn't offer a factory setting for PVA (unless I'm missing something?), but I will be using the BVOH I bought to try to print the Gyro the Dodo soon. Looking forward to trying to Evolv3d soon too.

asc
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:18 pm

Re: Getting PVA to stick to PLA

Post by asc » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:08 pm

Finally started messing with BVOH this morning, and I'm getting very frustrated with this printer. I can't get ANY soluble support to work properly. My issues with PVA are outlined above. For BVOH, I'm having similar issues. Problems with dialing in the temp...too cold, it doesn't extrude properly. Too hot, it oozes everywhere, with long strings hanging out while the support head is not in use. And regardless of temp, it won't stick to the bed properly. No idea what I'm doing wrong here, but if anyone has detailed settings for S3d that they'd be willing to share (or even better, a profile for using PLA with T0 and BVOH with T1), I'd very much appreciate trying them out. I bought the M3ID specifically for use with soluble support, and while I've made some great prints with PLA alone, I haven't gotten a single soluble-support print to work. Sigh.

Also, Edit to note the following: Using the default settings from Makergear, S3D throws this error when preparing the gcode every single time: "The selected process is not configured for the number of extruders you have chosen to use. Are you sure you want to continue?" Of course, both extruders are in fact configured, and they do both perform once the print starts, just not very well. Also, it seems odd to me that the default MakerGear settings for PLA are at 200 degrees, but when using the PLA/BVOH default settings, it ramps the PLA up to 215. I assume this is to get the PLA and BVOH to adhere better to one another, but it results in all kinds of stringing/oozing with the PLA. I've been playing with those settings as well, but having a lot of trouble getting it dialed in.

airscapes
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:36 pm

Re: Getting PVA to stick to PLA

Post by airscapes » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:28 pm

What brand of PLA are you using? All the PLA I have used will print at 215 no problem, in fact I think (been a while) but I print PLA at 220. Of course the M2 only has one extruder. And Yes, with a hot end on and nothing printing any filament is going to leak out, it all does. Please keep in mind that the default profile for the M2 was not great you will need to adjust for lots of factors. Unfortunately it's a trial and error thing.. took me a very long time to get the hang of the settings and what they do. I am guessing you are using the current version of S3D? Unfortunately they screwed the pooch after 4.01 which works well in comparison from what I have read on their forum over the past year. I know that doesn't really help with your problems but thought you should be aware if you were not.

If you are having issue with adhesion of support, try adding a 5 outline skirt (additions tab) that is .04mm from the part, add 3 solid layers to the support ( support tab) as well.
I assume that the starting height has been set for your layer height using calibration squares?

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