Help with a difficult print

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Katwitch
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:34 pm

Help with a difficult print

Post by Katwitch » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:21 pm

My son asked for the Rolls Royce hood ornament for his birthday. I'm doing in ABS so I can shine later with vapor bath.

The issue seems to be that very small parts of the print detach from the print surface during print and this snowballs into a mess in later layers. I've tried the polymide coted surface (which does not get good ABS adhesion for me at all), I've tried hairspray and glue sticks. The last two are getting very good adhesion and for the most part, do not come off without effort. The problem (I think) is that it only takes one tiny bit to detach and the whole thing gets messed up. Attached are some photos. I'm using Simplify 3D to slice on an M2 Dual V4.

I've tried laying the object on its side, which prints faster (fewer layers) but same resulting mess.

I should mention that I'm not having any issues with other prints. Most prints are better geometric candidates than this. I know the M2 can do it. Its me, not the printer. Help?
S3D speeds.jpg
RR supports.jpg
RR on Bed.jpg
IMG_20200130_093626.jpg

gbroters
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Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:11 pm

Re: Help with a difficult print

Post by gbroters » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:02 pm

Hey there,

My name is Garrett and I work as Technical Support here at MakerGear.
I'm sorry to see that you're experiencing this issue during your ABS/HIPS print.

Are you printing within an enclosure / closed environment?
From your attached photos, it appears that you're able to print the base of the part successfully, and the warping gradually starts as the part gets taller and the extruded material is further from the heated bed.
This is a common issue when printing ABS and HIPS in an open environment.
https://www.simplify3d.com/support/mate ... uide/hips/

I would also make sure that both of the extruder fans are turned off within your profile.

Please feel free to send that gcode file to our support email address for us to examine in detail: Support@MakerGear.com

Katwitch
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Re: Help with a difficult print

Post by Katwitch » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:16 pm

Garrett,
It's fully enclosed and the fans are off. I have a heat light to bring the temp to 75 and then power off (thermostat control).

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ednisley
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Re: Help with a difficult print

Post by ednisley » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:47 pm

Katwitch wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:21 pm
laying the object on its side
I'd flip the figure top-side-down.

Angle it to put the "wings" more-or-less horizontal, perhaps with the head level with the "wingtips" and the legs a bit off vertical.

Tweak the support to rise only from the platform and leave the legs unsupported. They're basically a post, so the nozzle will remain inside their perimeter and won't cause any (well, much) trouble.

The whole affair should be more stable while building and the support ought to be easier to remove from the relatively flat "wings", rather than around the legs.

I'd build it from PETG, smooth it with epoxy, and give it a rattle-can paint job. If it's going outdoors, it'll need UV protection, so maybe you could use high-fill primer instead of epoxy.

Katwitch
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Re: Help with a difficult print

Post by Katwitch » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:11 pm

Ed,
Like this?
RR Flipped.jpg

Katwitch
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Re: Help with a difficult print

Post by Katwitch » Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:40 pm

I'm noticing that the retraction is causing the first mm or so of travel on support nozzle (tool 1) to not come out. Example, as the layer switches from printing support to object material, the head will stop, retract and then extrude the other nozzle to continue. On the next layer, when its time to print more support material, the head will act like its printing but nothing comes out for the first second or so. This results in shaky supports, which might be causing the breaks.

Should I turn off retraction with a two head, different material print (ABS and HIPS for support)?

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ednisley
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Re: Help with a difficult print

Post by ednisley » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:30 pm

Katwitch wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:40 pm
retraction is causing the first mm or so of travel on support nozzle (tool 1) to not come out
nothing comes out for the first second or so
Fix that!

Part of the problem with dual extruders comes from the nature of the machinery: it's a bucket full of hot goo with a hole in the bottom. I suspect the retraction defaults to "enough so it doesn't dribble", which seems like too much.

I'm sure you must tune it for each model, balancing dribble against slow starting, but I'd err on the side of dribble.

NB: I don't have a dual extruder machine, so take all my advice with a large dash of your favorite seasoning.

It may solve the whole problem, but I think you'll also need better orientation to minimize the support structure.

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ednisley
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Re: Help with a difficult print

Post by ednisley » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:34 pm

Katwitch wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:11 pm
Like this?
Now that I see it, maybe the legs should be more vertical, but that's the general idea.

It seems large enough to split it down the middle, right down the spine, print the halves with the split flat on the platform and the "wings" in the air, then glue 'em together. Might not need any support material at all: major win.

Add a couple of holes for alignment pins across the split and you might not even know it came in two halves:

https://softsolder.com/2013/11/12/impro ... 3d-prints/

Keeps your mind off all your other problems, fer shure …

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