Printing lighter color PLA

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Rhodges09
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:19 pm

Printing lighter color PLA

Post by Rhodges09 » Mon May 11, 2015 1:06 am

First time posting, but I was wondering if anyone had tips for printing lighter color PLA. Not sure if it matters, but it certainly feels like it does.

I am currently using Hatchbox PLA which has some decent reviews and it certainly looks like a high quality PLA but I cannot get it to adhere to my HBP. Using the stock black that shipped with my M2 I have 0 problems and the prints come out amazing, but this green and the subsequent blue that I also have are almost more trouble then they are worth.

I have tried varying the temps and printing speeds currently printing at 220c and 70c on the HBP which works great for the black and gets me the best I can seem to get off the green. (with tons of shrinkage and curling)

I have not tried hairspray or glue or tape, wanted to avoid those, but I am starting to think glass will only take me so far.

Thanks in advance

~Sean

jsc
Posts: 1864
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:00 am

Re: Printing lighter color PLA

Post by jsc » Mon May 11, 2015 2:17 am

hairspray, glue or tape :)

I've recently tried jimc's suggestion of Garnier Fructis Extreme Control hairspray, and it works very well. Only downside is I don't like to spray it while the bed is on the printer to avoid overspray, so it's a bit annoying to refresh. Glue stick also works very well for me for PLA, is easy to apply, and washes off with water.

Clean glass is a hit or miss affair, you're probably just hitting the point where it's gotten less-clean. If you don't want to use adhesives, wash your glass like a dish, with detergent, until it's squeaky clean, and dry carefully.

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insta
Posts: 2007
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:59 am

Re: Printing lighter color PLA

Post by insta » Mon May 11, 2015 2:45 am

Rhodges09 wrote:First time posting, but I was wondering if anyone had tips for printing lighter color PLA. Not sure if it matters, but it certainly feels like it does.

I am currently using Hatchbox PLA which has some decent reviews and it certainly looks like a high quality PLA but I cannot get it to adhere to my HBP. Using the stock black that shipped with my M2 I have 0 problems and the prints come out amazing, but this green and the subsequent blue that I also have are almost more trouble then they are worth.

I have tried varying the temps and printing speeds currently printing at 220c and 70c on the HBP which works great for the black and gets me the best I can seem to get off the green. (with tons of shrinkage and curling)

I have not tried hairspray or glue or tape, wanted to avoid those, but I am starting to think glass will only take me so far.

Thanks in advance

~Sean
Make sure you're not using mis-labelled ABS. The easiest way to test is set some on fire -- PLA burns with a small blue flame with almost no smoke, ABS burns with an orange/yellow flame that is extremely sooty. The safer way to tell is immerse it in acetone, PLA is more or less unaffected, ABS will immediately begin to soften and rub off onto your fingers.

I bet you have ABS...

If it is PLA, then just switch vendors. They are all hit or miss on varying colors. It's not worth questionable prints to save $4 per roll.
Custom 3D printing for you or your business -- quote [at] pingring.org

Rhodges09
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:19 pm

Re: Printing lighter color PLA

Post by Rhodges09 » Mon May 11, 2015 10:37 am

Thank you both for your insight. Oddly enough acetone affected the makergear Black more then it affected the green or blue. from here I will try some gluestick (9 year old has it laying around everywhere) and if thats too much of a mess, I will try the hairspray.

And yes when I purchased the hatchbox I was not so much looking for price but quality. My prints are for resale and I need the best possible outcome I can get. I have some PET+ on the way in fact, hoping that prints well too, I hope the strength and minimal warp are all it's advertised.

ajmadison
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:13 am

Re: Printing lighter color PLA

Post by ajmadison » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:03 am

I realize this thread is a year old, but in case anyone is listening, I am tearing my hair out trying to print some larger objects with Hatchbox silver. It is warping (nay curling) on the outer edges (like crazy, like a full CM at the rim of an print that 85% the width of the build plate).

I have tried everything short of getting a different build plate material (which I am considering). I've lowered the bed temp to 40c, extruder temp to 195c, turned the print speed down to 3500mm/min, put an external fan on the bed, sprayed hair spray like crazy on my Kapton coated bed, tried increasingly smaller objects, avoided "islands" along the edges of the base of the print, and still I can see lifting on the edges.

I'll go test the filament and see if its mislabeled ABS. But I guess I should do a test run with the defacto standard, MG Black PLA. Anything I missed? Thanks in advance.

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Jules
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Re: Printing lighter color PLA

Post by Jules » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:38 am

Full bed PLA prints are hard to keep from warping up at corners....I think the edges of the glass plate do not stay as warm as the interior.

The best combination for a full bed PLA print is a MIC6 plate with a PEI surface on it. (Discussion on it here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3450).

But that is an expensive (one-time) purchase. You can get the adhesion by just applying PEI to the glass. It still provides pretty good adhesion in the corners while the PEI is warm.

In the meantime...increase the bed temp to 50°-60°C. You need to compensate a little for the size of that print.

Spray the hairspray on the cold plate until it puddles, then smear it around with your finger and let it dry. To hold at the edges, make sure you have enough hairspray (evenly distributed) all the way from one edge to the other.

With large surface area PLA prints - increasing the infill density helps it to maintain it's shape. And wait until it completely cools before removing it from the plate, in order to set the shape. (I've had large flat PLA prints continue to warp slightly after they cooled down, unless I left in attached to the plate for a couple of hours after cooling.)

Finally, it sometimes helps to design a little sacrificial brim at the corners to hold them down. The warping will occur on the brim, hopefully leaving the corners attached.

ajmadison
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:13 am

Re: Printing lighter color PLA

Post by ajmadison » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:02 am

Thanks for the advice. One posting recommended the Zebra plate, which I've ordered. I'll look into the PEI plate. I've tried the 50-60C and 50% infill, and no change in the warping. In the last hour, I saw a description that describes the behavior perfectly, the outer layers are like a thousand tiny rubber bands trying to squeeze the perimeter.

Should have mentioned this before, the first 10 to 20 layers are fine and partial print looks great. After that, the edges pop loose from the build plate and the print curls up, and it must do so gradually, because the layers above the curl are all level, and the print finishes, just the bottom face is shaped like a banana.

My latest test was a print with the HatchBox Silver is smaller than other successful prints I've done with MakerGear black, and though its minor, I can see some edge lift. I am seriously thinking its the filament. Definitely have to do a test shot with another filament.

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Jules
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Re: Printing lighter color PLA

Post by Jules » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:06 am

increasing the infill density helps it to maintain it's shape
:)

ajmadison
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Re: Printing lighter color PLA

Post by ajmadison » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:18 pm

I am yet to switch to the zebra plate, but thought I'd pass along what I have learned.

I printed some parts with MakerGear's Black PLA with a build plate contact/footprint linear dimensions less than 1/3 of the BP's width/length. Extruder temp 205C, BP 60C, speed 3500 mm/min, infill 60%. With no warping, not even minor amounts of lift. I went back and looked at some larger prints with MG Black PLA at the old 'factory default settings', Ex 215C, BP 70C, speed 4800 mm/min, infill 30% and some of the parts have visible warping, but not the "banana" prints I was getting with the Hatchbox Silver. Some of my older prints were printed when the room temperature was low 50'sF (or 12C) and some in the late spring with room temps in high 60's but didn't keep notes, but I suspect the minor warping occurred on parts printed when the room was t-shirt warm. All of those older prints I consider 'successful', albeit they're not perfect.

I had 'acceptable' but not perfect results with a HB Silver print that used approx 75% of the long dimension of the build plate. The BP had multiple thick coats of hair spray. I used a multi-layer raft to absorb some of the warping, which worked. The piece in question has "islands" of contact where the worst of the warping occurred, and using a raft helped but not completely eliminated the warping. Ex temp 205C, BP 60C, speed 3500 mm/min, infill 60%. I used an external fan, but I actually think it makes the warping worse, not better because the warping consistently occurs on the side of the print that is nearest the fan. An HB Silver print at 30% of the BP's linear dimensions, (as above) with the same settings (and no fan) had minimal warping (less than a mm). I had intended to print with a raft, but had crossed up the build process settings. I'm going to print a different part but with the exact same build plate footprint with a raft, to see if even the minimal warping can be absorbed by the raft.

This has been quite an adventure, and I wasted close to an entire spool of filament, but I'm finally producing parts with this particular filament. But I wanted to get a handle on what the limitations of what I can print are. Also learned that one solution is changing the orientation of the part (and how I chop it apart to fit the printer volume).

ajmadison
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:13 am

Re: Printing lighter color PLA

Post by ajmadison » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:18 am

On more comment. I had heard good things about eSun PLA+, so I ordered some from amazon.

Alas, the "silver" color is different between the two. The HB is darker, and has an inherent shine to it. The eSun is lighter and the untouched/unpolished print has a flat finish. OTOH, the eSun silver PLA+ sticks to the hairspray coated Kapton covered glass very nicely. I've had no warping in the corners on the parts I've (re)printed that are identical in orientation, skirts, temps, infill, etc, etc. These bases of these parts cover no more than 1/5 of the total area of the plate, and no more than 1/3 of the length or width of the build plate. I may try an ambitious print that is 85% of the plates length/width, depending upon the current results.

Wish I could say the prints are completely identical, but I had an extruder jam, so the extruder has been pulled, re-installed, calibration squares printed, to set new extruder widths and G-code z axis values in S3D.

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